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<blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5544362" data-attributes="member: 6674931">I don't agree. (if i understood your reply correctly)...-Fighters usually have high CON scores...therefore good FOR saves.-Rogue is DEX based class... Gets good REF saves.(at least their primary abilities power up their saves!)-Clerics are a WIS based class and get good WILL saves. Also, they have something of a fighter in them, so they get a decent CON score (also helps with concentration), therefore a decent FOR save....while the wizard is an INT based class who gets only one good save (compared to the cleric) that he can't even power up properly. You see, as a secondary ability, he (usually) either takes DEX so as to get a decent AC and a better initiative, or CON so as to boost his few HPs and his Concentration. In the end he is bad in all three saves.Considering that the saves' ranking is as follows (in order of importance/usefulness) : 1-WILL, 2-FOR, 3-DEX, compare that to the cleric who gets a very good WILL and an adequate FOR... Not really balanced IMO... I mean why the hell would a wizard's mind be less &quot;resilient&quot; than a clerics? it doesn't even make sense...Right on that one...Let's just say that i spoke for both the Wizard and the Sorcerer (Truth is i 've removed them from my games so i don't care... don't ask why<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jimlock, post: 5544362, member: 6674931"] I don't agree. (if i understood your reply correctly)... -Fighters usually have high CON scores...therefore good FOR saves. -Rogue is DEX based class... Gets good REF saves. (at least their primary abilities power up their saves!) -Clerics are a WIS based class and get good WILL saves. Also, they have something of a fighter in them, so they get a decent CON score (also helps with concentration), therefore a decent FOR save. ...while the wizard is an INT based class who gets only one good save (compared to the cleric) that he can't even power up properly. You see, as a secondary ability, he (usually) either takes DEX so as to get a decent AC and a better initiative, or CON so as to boost his few HPs and his Concentration. In the end he is bad in all three saves. Considering that the saves' ranking is as follows (in order of importance/usefulness) : 1-WILL, 2-FOR, 3-DEX, compare that to the cleric who gets a very good WILL and an adequate FOR... Not really balanced IMO... I mean why the hell would a wizard's mind be less "resilient" than a clerics? it doesn't even make sense... Right on that one...Let's just say that i spoke for both the Wizard and the Sorcerer (Truth is i 've removed them from my games so i don't care... don't ask why:cool:) [/QUOTE]

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