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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steenan" data-source="post: 4642288" data-attributes="member: 23240">I see a paladin as a chivalric ideal, a perfect knight - strong, courageous and honorable. Both the LG alignment that 3e required and the code of conduct reflect exactly this - they have nothing to do with being "extra good" or "extra lawful". Cleric is a holy warrior, an agent od deity; paladin is who every knight should strive to be.That is why i saw requiring every paladin to follow a deity in 3e FR, and even more allowing paladins to be of any alignment in 4e, as a very bad idea. Either the designers' idea of what a paladin is was drastically different than mine, or they really didn't have any...It doesn't mean I don't like the idea of having exemplars of other alignments - it just meand that they should have both crunch and fluff drasitcally different than a paladin. I remember using a LE exemplar in my game. Not the blackguard from DMG, who tries to be three different things at the same time and as a result is neighter. My black knight was, in some respects, quite similar to paladin - he never lied, never used poison, never slaughtered a helpless enemy. But while a paladin always hepls those in need, he travelled the world only to fing worthy opponents and defeat them. For him, the only measure of worth was the ability to stand for one's own in a direct combat and everyone who wasn't willing to fight was to serve. All the class abilities were focused on duelling (with humanoids and monsters) and making anybody who run from him or surrendered not able to oppose him again. Similarily, I had a CE exemplar, focused on weakening and destroying. It didn't matter who he opposed - he just enjoyed watching men slaughtered, women raped and towns burned to the ground. One of the entry requirements was killing a group of no less than ten innocent people just because one could.Both were, in some sense, anti-paladins. Paladins of different alignments, as 4e would call it. But what they could do had nothing with paladin abilities and none of them was defined by comparing to a paladin.</blockquote>

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