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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 3094413" data-attributes="member: 29252">Yeah, the [Shadow] line of spells is great for the player (usually) but tends to give DM's headaches.  Buff spells make for one of those "wha?" situations - okay, you cast it, so you have concrete proof it isn't real, and thus you fall under the clause from the magic overview: "A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw"  Okay, so you don't need a saving throw.... but it's "needs no" not "automatically succeeds" and not "doesn't get a", so you skip your auto-save, and then you voluntarily give up your saving throw, being fully affected by your shadow spell.  Which is handy when you want to ride a Phantom Steed.  It does, however, actually make some amount of sense from an in-game perspective, though - seriously, all gamers should understand the ability to deliberately suspend disbelief for the benefits derived therefrom, we do it every session - and the caster of all people knows for certain that even if you ignore the illusory part, there's still a part of it that's very real, and might do the job anyway.  Might as well treat it as real just in case.  And if that logic doesn't work on your DM, take cross-class ranks in AutoHypnosis (XPH, also in the Psionics section of the SRD) to ease his peace of mind.Of course, you don't want to be using it for things like mage armor - remember, it's a will disbelief, so in theory, your opponent could get a save to get a chance to ignore your Mage Armor when striking you.....Oh, and as for Core spells...Shadow Evocation can do such nifties as Wall of Ice.  Sure, it has almost no HP... but it will force a melee character to stop and attack it before getting to you.... which could be very valuable indeed.  It can also do Continual Flame (odd as that sounds - a [Shadow] spell duplicating a [Light] spell?) which has some really fun effects when your opponent successfully disbelieves it... and, as Shadow Evocation doesn't have the % chance of success for non-damaging effects, means taht anyone who saves against it is left in the dark....Although it's Greater Shadow Conjouration that can really give your DM headaches:"Okay, so it's a non-magical illusion of a wall of stone that a magic-immune golem is completely unaffected by?  Umm....."Which is really great when you're laying out traps for particular critters.... you know, like the high Will save clerics and wizards..... Shadow Conjouration Walls of Stone floors can be fun.....0</blockquote>

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