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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5087334" data-attributes="member: 82106">Even PHB paladins were fine if you understood how to use them well. The STR build was definitely not really complete and needed some help, but the CHA build was perfectly fine. Really even the STR build worked well, it just had very few options and one level where there were basically no options at all. What you have to understand is that Lay on Hands is retroactive defending, not really healing. A monster gets by you and hits the wizard? You just toss an LoH on him and its as if the monster hit the paladin instead. Its a perfectly valid way to defend.DC is perfectly fine too. Its a mark that you do nothing to punish with and works even at range, especially if you pick up a heavy thrown weapon to use when you want to reengage a target that is not near you. Its no less sticky than any other mark. The enemy is punished for not attacking you, just like they are for the fighter mark PLUS they take damage. The fighter mark can only do damage to one enemy at a time anyhow and requires the fighter to hit and thus the target to be adjacent. Obviously DC works best in an encounter with one big bad enemy that you really want to have stick to you but combined with LoH it gives decent defending in most situations.DP certainly did open up a lot of more interesting paladin options though, there's no arguing with that. STR paladins are now able to do more and have a decent selection of powers. You can more easily focus on different secondary roles, etc. I'd absolutely recommend using DP and pulling heavily from it to make the class a lot more interesting. Power-wise its mostly not that much different though if you were able to put together a good build before. I think the problem was that paladin builds were not all that obvious and a lot of the way the designers looked at paladin in terms of the relationship of its class features to its role wasn't all that obvious to most players. So they ended up feeling like they weren't effective simply because it wasn't clear what options to focus on for a good build. Maybe that was bad class design but it wasn't due to being underpowered.</blockquote>

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