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General Tabletop Discussion
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Conditions and Spellcasting Levels; What Condition Will Go With What Spellcasting Level?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6136751" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>First off, you've set conditions that are essentially similar to Finger of Death. The Finger is a 7th level spell, so I think that's a sensible benchmark. It's a classic, but reasonably balanced. That would suggest to me that nothing would be 8th or 9th in the scenario you've described. With that in mind.</p><p></p><p>1. Ability Damage (With this one, whats the minimum spell level within the above spell conditions that can deal 1 point of Ability Damage?)</p><p>Probably 1st. 1 point of ability damage is unlikely to affect the outcome of a battle. Also, I think there is an example in the BoVD.</p><p></p><p>2. Ability Drain (With this one, whats the minimum spell level within the above spell conditions that can deal 1 point of Ability Drain?)</p><p>From a short-term tactical perspective, this is no different. From a long-term perspective, this is really problematic. I'd say 3rd level, because that's a big turning point for the usefulness of magic.</p><p></p><p>3. Blinding</p><p>1st level. The Blindness/Deafness spell is permanent and is 2nd level, therefore a short duration spell should be a level lower.</p><p></p><p>4. Blown Away</p><p>Probably 3rd level. Gust of Wind is level 2.</p><p></p><p>5. Checked</p><p>2nd level. Similar enough to GoW.</p><p></p><p>6. Confusion</p><p>2nd level. The parameters given place this spell in between the Confusion and Lesser Confusion spells (levels 3 and 1) in terms of power.</p><p></p><p>7. Cowering</p><p>A nasty disabling effect. I'd say 3rd level. Hold Person is a 3rd level (Sorc/Wiz) spell, and has a slightly more powerful effect, but allows a save every round. I'd say a cowering spell is slightly more powerful. A very strong 3rd.</p><p></p><p>8. Daze</p><p>2nd level. The Daze cantrip is similar, but has a duration of 1 round and an HD limit. I think removing both of those takes us to 2nd (similar to confusion in power; more disabling but no potential of deranged action). </p><p></p><p>9. Dazzling</p><p>0 level. This is pretty close to Flare, except it's a round a level instead of 1 minute.</p><p></p><p>10. Death</p><p>7th, per above.</p><p></p><p>11. Deafening</p><p>1st, as with blindness.</p><p></p><p>12. Disabling</p><p>What's that spell that makes you think you're disabled? I'd say 2nd, maybe 3rd.</p><p></p><p>13. Dying</p><p>If death is 7th, I guess dying is 6th.</p><p></p><p>14. Energy Drain (With this one, whats the minimum spell level within the above spell conditions that can grant 1 Negative Level?)</p><p>4th. This is close to Enervation; which is 1d4 neg levels and a touch attack instead of a save. These parameters make the spell less powerful, but not enough to make it 3rd, IMO.</p><p></p><p>15. Entangling</p><p>1st. Less powerful than Entangle the spell, but not a cantrip.</p><p></p><p>16. Exhausted</p><p>I'm saying 2nd. Ray of Exhaustion is 3rd, but this example completely negates the effect on a save (where RoE is fort partial, still fatigued on success). Also the ray has a longer duration. And I think exhaustion is pretty close to blindness and deafness.</p><p></p><p>17. Fascinated</p><p>2nd. Pretty disabling, but easily negated by combat/danger. Similar in usefulness to Hypnotic Pattern,</p><p></p><p>18. Fatigued</p><p>1st level. If exhaustion is 2nd.</p><p></p><p>19. Flat-Footed</p><p>2nd level. I believe there are SC examples along this line. Being flat-footed for 1 round/level can really be taken advantage of.</p><p></p><p>20. Frightened</p><p>I'm saying 2nd. Pretty disabling and exposes you to a lot of harm.</p><p></p><p>21. Grappled (Let this Grappling require a Saving Throw against the Spell DC to break out of.)</p><p>I think 2nd is reasonable. That kelp arms spell is 2nd I think.</p><p></p><p>22. Helplessness</p><p>Basically leads to your death. 5th, IMO. 2 steps below death.</p><p></p><p>23. Incorporality</p><p>Probably 6th. Extremely useful for defense and transportation.</p><p></p><p>24. Invisibility</p><p>2nd. I don't think the duration decrease/range increase is enough to change levels from Invisibility the spell.</p><p></p><p>25. Knocked Down</p><p>3nd level. If it keeps you down for 1 round/level, that's nasty.</p><p></p><p>26. Nauseated</p><p>3rd level. Disabling, but doesn't immediately get you killed.</p><p></p><p>27. Panicked</p><p>3rd level. Fear is 4th, and it affects an area. This is a pretty nasty effect, but does generally leave the character alive.</p><p></p><p>28. Paralysis</p><p>5th. Basically death. Hold Person is 3rd, but allows a save every round. Big difference.</p><p></p><p>29. Petrified</p><p>4th. Flesh to Stone is permanent, and is level 6. 1 round/level is not nearly as bad. Destroying an object with 8 hardness within 1 round-level is hard, so it's more disabling than lethal.</p><p></p><p>30. Pinned (Let the Pinning require a Saving Throw against the Spell DC to break out of.)</p><p>4th. Almost as bad as helpless, but not quite.</p><p></p><p>31. Prone</p><p>3rd level. If you're stuck prone, you ability to move and attack and defend is severely compromised.</p><p></p><p>32. Shaken</p><p>1st. Slightly better than Cause Fear, but not much.</p><p></p><p>33. Sickened</p><p>1st. Basically similar to shaken.</p><p></p><p>34. Stabilize</p><p>0 level. It it only lasts a round a level, it's less powerful than Cure Minor.</p><p></p><p>35. Stagger</p><p>2nd. Annoying, but not lethal.</p><p></p><p>36. Stun</p><p>4th. Pretty much makes you a sitting duck for 1 round/level.</p><p></p><p>37. Turn</p><p>2nd. Pretty much like being frightened.</p><p></p><p>38. Unconsciousness.</p><p>5th. As good as dead, but not actually dead.</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT: Are we talking about only being dead for 1 round/level? Because that would be weird. If you die for a minute and come back to life, that's more like a Maze spell (which is 8th but has no save).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 6136751, member: 17106"] First off, you've set conditions that are essentially similar to Finger of Death. The Finger is a 7th level spell, so I think that's a sensible benchmark. It's a classic, but reasonably balanced. That would suggest to me that nothing would be 8th or 9th in the scenario you've described. With that in mind. 1. Ability Damage (With this one, whats the minimum spell level within the above spell conditions that can deal 1 point of Ability Damage?) Probably 1st. 1 point of ability damage is unlikely to affect the outcome of a battle. Also, I think there is an example in the BoVD. 2. Ability Drain (With this one, whats the minimum spell level within the above spell conditions that can deal 1 point of Ability Drain?) From a short-term tactical perspective, this is no different. From a long-term perspective, this is really problematic. I'd say 3rd level, because that's a big turning point for the usefulness of magic. 3. Blinding 1st level. The Blindness/Deafness spell is permanent and is 2nd level, therefore a short duration spell should be a level lower. 4. Blown Away Probably 3rd level. Gust of Wind is level 2. 5. Checked 2nd level. Similar enough to GoW. 6. Confusion 2nd level. The parameters given place this spell in between the Confusion and Lesser Confusion spells (levels 3 and 1) in terms of power. 7. Cowering A nasty disabling effect. I'd say 3rd level. Hold Person is a 3rd level (Sorc/Wiz) spell, and has a slightly more powerful effect, but allows a save every round. I'd say a cowering spell is slightly more powerful. A very strong 3rd. 8. Daze 2nd level. The Daze cantrip is similar, but has a duration of 1 round and an HD limit. I think removing both of those takes us to 2nd (similar to confusion in power; more disabling but no potential of deranged action). 9. Dazzling 0 level. This is pretty close to Flare, except it's a round a level instead of 1 minute. 10. Death 7th, per above. 11. Deafening 1st, as with blindness. 12. Disabling What's that spell that makes you think you're disabled? I'd say 2nd, maybe 3rd. 13. Dying If death is 7th, I guess dying is 6th. 14. Energy Drain (With this one, whats the minimum spell level within the above spell conditions that can grant 1 Negative Level?) 4th. This is close to Enervation; which is 1d4 neg levels and a touch attack instead of a save. These parameters make the spell less powerful, but not enough to make it 3rd, IMO. 15. Entangling 1st. Less powerful than Entangle the spell, but not a cantrip. 16. Exhausted I'm saying 2nd. Ray of Exhaustion is 3rd, but this example completely negates the effect on a save (where RoE is fort partial, still fatigued on success). Also the ray has a longer duration. And I think exhaustion is pretty close to blindness and deafness. 17. Fascinated 2nd. Pretty disabling, but easily negated by combat/danger. Similar in usefulness to Hypnotic Pattern, 18. Fatigued 1st level. If exhaustion is 2nd. 19. Flat-Footed 2nd level. I believe there are SC examples along this line. Being flat-footed for 1 round/level can really be taken advantage of. 20. Frightened I'm saying 2nd. Pretty disabling and exposes you to a lot of harm. 21. Grappled (Let this Grappling require a Saving Throw against the Spell DC to break out of.) I think 2nd is reasonable. That kelp arms spell is 2nd I think. 22. Helplessness Basically leads to your death. 5th, IMO. 2 steps below death. 23. Incorporality Probably 6th. Extremely useful for defense and transportation. 24. Invisibility 2nd. I don't think the duration decrease/range increase is enough to change levels from Invisibility the spell. 25. Knocked Down 3nd level. If it keeps you down for 1 round/level, that's nasty. 26. Nauseated 3rd level. Disabling, but doesn't immediately get you killed. 27. Panicked 3rd level. Fear is 4th, and it affects an area. This is a pretty nasty effect, but does generally leave the character alive. 28. Paralysis 5th. Basically death. Hold Person is 3rd, but allows a save every round. Big difference. 29. Petrified 4th. Flesh to Stone is permanent, and is level 6. 1 round/level is not nearly as bad. Destroying an object with 8 hardness within 1 round-level is hard, so it's more disabling than lethal. 30. Pinned (Let the Pinning require a Saving Throw against the Spell DC to break out of.) 4th. Almost as bad as helpless, but not quite. 31. Prone 3rd level. If you're stuck prone, you ability to move and attack and defend is severely compromised. 32. Shaken 1st. Slightly better than Cause Fear, but not much. 33. Sickened 1st. Basically similar to shaken. 34. Stabilize 0 level. It it only lasts a round a level, it's less powerful than Cure Minor. 35. Stagger 2nd. Annoying, but not lethal. 36. Stun 4th. Pretty much makes you a sitting duck for 1 round/level. 37. Turn 2nd. Pretty much like being frightened. 38. Unconsciousness. 5th. As good as dead, but not actually dead. EDIT: Are we talking about only being dead for 1 round/level? Because that would be weird. If you die for a minute and come back to life, that's more like a Maze spell (which is 8th but has no save). [/QUOTE]
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