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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6596333" data-attributes="member: 7635">Disagree. The name &quot;Dungeons &amp; Dragons&quot; brings certain expectations, and those expectations for many were not met; regardless of how good the actual product delivered was. For example, a player opening the PHB would be dismayed to see a lack of certain elements: bards, druids, and gnomes for starters. They would be confused that elves were no longer wizards and that a new type of &quot;super elf&quot; had shown up to take that place. They'd see the discarding of the Great Wheel, the renaming of monsters (or the changes to established lore about them), the appropriation of Mystara, Ravenloft, and Greyhawk iconic settings into Nentir Vale, and radical altering of Eberron and Forgotten Realms to accommodate this new lore. And that doesn't even begin to touch mechanical elements, like the discarding of Vancian magic or the healing-surge based HP economy. In short, 4e lobbed away too much in an effort to reinvent itself. At times, it felt less like D&amp;D with new rules and more like some new game wearing D&amp;D's skin. Even if it was a good game (or would become a good game), the fact it didn't hew close enough to the expectations of many former players is enough to earn the right to be called &quot;D&amp;D&quot; by them. It was the changes to mechanics, to lore, to settings, etc, that felt like it was trying too hard to &quot;change D&amp;D&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 6596333, member: 7635"] Disagree. The name "Dungeons & Dragons" brings certain expectations, and those expectations for many were not met; regardless of how good the actual product delivered was. For example, a player opening the PHB would be dismayed to see a lack of certain elements: bards, druids, and gnomes for starters. They would be confused that elves were no longer wizards and that a new type of "super elf" had shown up to take that place. They'd see the discarding of the Great Wheel, the renaming of monsters (or the changes to established lore about them), the appropriation of Mystara, Ravenloft, and Greyhawk iconic settings into Nentir Vale, and radical altering of Eberron and Forgotten Realms to accommodate this new lore. And that doesn't even begin to touch mechanical elements, like the discarding of Vancian magic or the healing-surge based HP economy. In short, 4e lobbed away too much in an effort to reinvent itself. At times, it felt less like D&D with new rules and more like some new game wearing D&D's skin. Even if it was a good game (or would become a good game), the fact it didn't hew close enough to the expectations of many former players is enough to earn the right to be called "D&D" by them. It was the changes to mechanics, to lore, to settings, etc, that felt like it was trying too hard to "change D&D". [/QUOTE]

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