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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 6597055">Tony with all due respect, it feels like this is just about point scoring with you. I am happy if 4E works for you, and I am fine with you not thinking dissociative mechanics are real, or if you find it just isn't a useful tool for design and play. But I never admitted dissociative mechanics don't exist, I am just acknowledging there is a subjective element to whether one believes a particular mechanic is dissociative (just like clunky mechanics exist even if we don't all agree on what mechanics fall into the category of clunky). Perhaps to you me singling out dissociative as the reason for not liking a mechanics is the same as just saying I don't like it. For me I find it useful because it identifies one of the reasons, and I can use this in design and in what games I choose to play. My feeling is if you find power attack dissociative then you find it dissociative and that is simply your point of view. Where I may engage you in discussion on it, and where I have, is I don't think it is widely regarded as dissociative.</blockquote>