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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Erechel" data-source="post: 6597527" data-attributes="member: 6784868">This is a valid position. The rules don't have to break when they are pushed (they are, after all, like physics laws in own our realm). But you will never see me complain about that. I complain about the power creeping factor, about dissociative mechanics that had nothing to do with a story driven game and levels the game to a more powergamist, inverosimile ground, and about static party roles (if you aren't so sure, it's okay, but the actual book says that there are roles to fulfill, and that roles are combat roles: defender, striker, controller, leader; they are actually pretty dissociative, balance-driven, not story-wise party roles). This creates a a lot less story-driven core of the game, as it permeates every game, although many players can claim that they can run a story driven 4th edition game.I will gladly accept balance, "better" mechanics (although you don't already describe at all why you think them that way, although many of us had to put word for word several times why we think that they aren't, or even what powergaming is; if you are a power creep actually it is better for you to play 3rd edition) and change if it leads to a overall better game experience. But, YMMV, I can not see this improving in 4th edition. Not even in 3rd (you won't see me in a Pathfinder table). I surely can in 5th, and it is easy to prove that it is a much more story driven game: backgrounds, personalities with bonds and flaws, the entries in MM, depictions of races and classes, trinkets, and so on and so on (I'm quoting Zizek here). Even it is stated as a modular game, where the control is on the DM side (or table side), and not everything is forced by RAW.Story-driven and mechanics-driven are two different approachs to the game. It is to expect that the two of them being carefully taken account of. The two of them are completely different approaches as how a game must be played, and depict what the heart of the game actually is.</blockquote>

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