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Confirm or Deny: D&D4e would be going strong had it not been titled D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6601268" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Lately, they very much have! Not quite sure why, but hey, if it works it works <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>While the question wasn't asked of me, I feel giving such answers is always helpful to a conversation. So!</p><p></p><p>I'm very much a fan of the "Paladins & Princesses" style, as <a href="http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?695583-Theory-Flavors-of-D-amp-D-II-Finding-the-Right-Tools-for-the-Jobs" target="_blank">coined by Armchair Gamer</a> on RPG.net:</p><p></p><p></p><p>(Note: "DC&D" = Dungeoncrawling & Demons, Armchair Gamer's term for the style that prevailed during AD&D, particularly in the "tourney" modules.)</p><p></p><p>When I play D&D, I want to play a Good Person dealing with difficult situations. It can be a "Dingy White" type of Good (a la Han Solo and Lando Calrissian); it can be a "bright grey" self-interested but ultimately positive character; it can be a real Knight in Shining Armor (I adore Paladins.) It's okay if the world has crappy stuff in it; that's what Heroes are for, to fight the crappy stuff. But I <strong>do not</strong> want to play in a Game of Thrones kind of world, where the more good a person you are, <em>the more you suck</em>, and the more the world will try to utterly crush you beneath its iron heel until you are either insane, destroyed, or a cynical bitter prick. Being good should not be inherently a fool's errand; taking the "hard but noble path" should pay off, at least as often as it bites you in the ass, and preferably more often. The PCs should be able to make a lasting (not necessarily permanent) impact on the world, improving it.</p><p></p><p>To give an example of something that has ended up this way, more through group actions than through overt DM intent: my Dungeon World game. </p><p>[sblock]We came into a world that was, honestly, pretty scary. Vampire mafiosi having total control over the second-largest city on the continent--and even having the truly divinely-blessed head bishop of Bahamut under their thumb. The powerful (if reclusive) Wizard Conclave, able to steal children whenever they like, and totally ignoring the mundane authority of the nations on their borders. The leaders of the Conclave, the Avatars, exercising nearly unlimited power (as long as they can get over their petty internal squabbles--which doesn't happen often). Roving bands of bandits, armies of orcs and giants and kobolds wandering the woods, strange and unearthly creatures living barely paces off the beaten paths.</p><p></p><p>But we've changed that--and not always just by kicking ass (though we do plenty of that, too). We destroyed the evil Tower of Necromancy and its Black Avatar, and my Paladin healed the lingering corruption that affected the other Avatars (albeit not without significant effort and personal suffering for my char). We destroyed the ancient vampire ruling the large city, and actually managed to <em>redeem</em> a faction of vampires into being neutral guardians of the city, rather than evil parasites--with their new leader even earning my Paladin's respect for her restraint and willingness to change her ways. And most recently, we unmasked the impostor who'd replaced the Green Avatar (of Conjuration/Summoning), resurrected a sentient species that had been hunted to extinction, and established one of our former companions (a Kobold wizard) as the new Avatar of Light, whose tower extends down into the depths of the earth and gives the kobolds, goblins, and other creatures of the Under World a hope of joining the civilizations of the surface peacefully.</p><p></p><p>It's been hard, and we've done occasional questionable things, and my Paladin has had his faith shaken more than once--but we've done incredible good for the world, and we may yet do even more.[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>Part of getting this style right, for my preferences, is striking the right balance between the three pillars. Conflicts with sentient beings should have, as an option, solutions by diplomacy or wheeling-and-dealing, usually through accepting some kind of quest or promising to accomplish some kind of major heroic deed to earn trust. There should still be combat, and that combat should be enjoyable; there's not much point in being a Knight in Shining Armor if the Armor and Knightly skills never get used. It doesn't necessarily need to be something the characters agonize over participating in, but (being The Good Guys) they shouldn't generally relish the bloodshed either. Exploration should also be entertaining, but more in the "solve the puzzle"/"defeat the exciting trap" kind of way than the nitty-gritty logistics way.</p><p></p><p>I don't know how to describe it much beyond this; it's...a game where talking is always worth *trying* even if it doesn't work, and the Good Guys legitimately have a chance (not just a one-in-a-million chance, either) of winning. Even if the win is rarely exactly what they expected it to be!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 6601268, member: 6790260"] Lately, they very much have! Not quite sure why, but hey, if it works it works :) While the question wasn't asked of me, I feel giving such answers is always helpful to a conversation. So! I'm very much a fan of the "Paladins & Princesses" style, as [URL="http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?695583-Theory-Flavors-of-D-amp-D-II-Finding-the-Right-Tools-for-the-Jobs"]coined by Armchair Gamer[/URL] on RPG.net: (Note: "DC&D" = Dungeoncrawling & Demons, Armchair Gamer's term for the style that prevailed during AD&D, particularly in the "tourney" modules.) When I play D&D, I want to play a Good Person dealing with difficult situations. It can be a "Dingy White" type of Good (a la Han Solo and Lando Calrissian); it can be a "bright grey" self-interested but ultimately positive character; it can be a real Knight in Shining Armor (I adore Paladins.) It's okay if the world has crappy stuff in it; that's what Heroes are for, to fight the crappy stuff. But I [B]do not[/B] want to play in a Game of Thrones kind of world, where the more good a person you are, [I]the more you suck[/I], and the more the world will try to utterly crush you beneath its iron heel until you are either insane, destroyed, or a cynical bitter prick. Being good should not be inherently a fool's errand; taking the "hard but noble path" should pay off, at least as often as it bites you in the ass, and preferably more often. The PCs should be able to make a lasting (not necessarily permanent) impact on the world, improving it. To give an example of something that has ended up this way, more through group actions than through overt DM intent: my Dungeon World game. [sblock]We came into a world that was, honestly, pretty scary. Vampire mafiosi having total control over the second-largest city on the continent--and even having the truly divinely-blessed head bishop of Bahamut under their thumb. The powerful (if reclusive) Wizard Conclave, able to steal children whenever they like, and totally ignoring the mundane authority of the nations on their borders. The leaders of the Conclave, the Avatars, exercising nearly unlimited power (as long as they can get over their petty internal squabbles--which doesn't happen often). Roving bands of bandits, armies of orcs and giants and kobolds wandering the woods, strange and unearthly creatures living barely paces off the beaten paths. But we've changed that--and not always just by kicking ass (though we do plenty of that, too). We destroyed the evil Tower of Necromancy and its Black Avatar, and my Paladin healed the lingering corruption that affected the other Avatars (albeit not without significant effort and personal suffering for my char). We destroyed the ancient vampire ruling the large city, and actually managed to [I]redeem[/I] a faction of vampires into being neutral guardians of the city, rather than evil parasites--with their new leader even earning my Paladin's respect for her restraint and willingness to change her ways. And most recently, we unmasked the impostor who'd replaced the Green Avatar (of Conjuration/Summoning), resurrected a sentient species that had been hunted to extinction, and established one of our former companions (a Kobold wizard) as the new Avatar of Light, whose tower extends down into the depths of the earth and gives the kobolds, goblins, and other creatures of the Under World a hope of joining the civilizations of the surface peacefully. It's been hard, and we've done occasional questionable things, and my Paladin has had his faith shaken more than once--but we've done incredible good for the world, and we may yet do even more.[/sblock] Part of getting this style right, for my preferences, is striking the right balance between the three pillars. Conflicts with sentient beings should have, as an option, solutions by diplomacy or wheeling-and-dealing, usually through accepting some kind of quest or promising to accomplish some kind of major heroic deed to earn trust. There should still be combat, and that combat should be enjoyable; there's not much point in being a Knight in Shining Armor if the Armor and Knightly skills never get used. It doesn't necessarily need to be something the characters agonize over participating in, but (being The Good Guys) they shouldn't generally relish the bloodshed either. Exploration should also be entertaining, but more in the "solve the puzzle"/"defeat the exciting trap" kind of way than the nitty-gritty logistics way. I don't know how to describe it much beyond this; it's...a game where talking is always worth *trying* even if it doesn't work, and the Good Guys legitimately have a chance (not just a one-in-a-million chance, either) of winning. Even if the win is rarely exactly what they expected it to be! [/QUOTE]
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