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Message: <blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 6604722" data-attributes="member: 85870">Hey don't get me wrong here---I'm no fan of 4th Edition. A few days ago I FINALLY caught the vision of what it's potentially capable of, and the style of gameplay you could get from it if you're willing to simply "play by its rules." And frankly, I think it's a pretty groovy playstyle, it's very much akin to what I'm getting from Savage Worlds. And it's actually pretty cool that [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] and others are getting that kind of play from it; it's very unique to 4e. You definitely won't get that kind of play from 3e and earlier. But even though I intellectually can see the merits of using 4e to get to that kind of gameplay, I personally would never choose to do it with 4e.  Martial dailies, healing surges, non-associated powers, and the marking mechanic all pull me out of the fiction fairly severely. But to play devil's advocate here........3e and earlier editions' views on hit points aren't much better. A level 8 fighter in 3e will typically have close to 90 hit points. Even if you take the exact average hit dice roll (5.5 on a d10 * 8 levels), plus let's say a +2 CON bonus per level, they're still sitting at 76 hit points. A 3/4 CR orc in the monster manual is typically rolling 1d8+2 damage, for an average damage per hit of 6.5. So you're telling me that if hit points are "meat"----that a level 8 fighter can go literally stand in the middle of a field completely unarmed, fling his arms to the side and shout "Come and get me!" to a random passing orc. And that random passing orc can then draw his sword, and TAKE 10 FULL SWINGS at the dude, and on average, barring some crazy-good luck on the orc's damage rolls, by the game's own rules it's nearly PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the fighter to die. And furthermore, not only is he alive, he could literally pick up his sword at that point, and begin actually fighting that orc with no penalties at all to his combat effectiveness, even though he's been PUMMELED for a MINUTE STRAIGHT in adjusted combat time in the game world? The point of this is......hit points are screwy no matter what view or rationalization you take. Hate on 4e all you want. Just recognize that hating on 4e for its view on hit points is like hating on a chicken sandwich because there wasn't enough beef in it. Your argument is certainly valid, it just doesn't make you sound very smart for making it in the first place.</blockquote>

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