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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Confirmed: Magic items and summoned monster stats in PHB
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<blockquote data-quote="Brother MacLaren" data-source="post: 4058973" data-attributes="member: 15999"><p>In previous editions, players were strongly discouraged from looking at the DM sections of books. They didn't know the abilities of monsters or the abilities of magic items.</p><p></p><p>This really, truly, DID increase the fun and the sense of wonder in my experience. That's not nostalgia. Most players that I have known enjoy a sense of mystery and the experience of discovery.</p><p></p><p>When I, as a DM, got a chance to play, I really enjoyed playing in games with creative DMs. Monsters whose abilities I didn't know; magic items with abilities that were mysterious.</p><p></p><p>3E put way too much <em>information</em> into players' hands. </p><p></p><p>On reflection, 4E might do better if its summoning and shapechanging rules are truly limited. There would still be enough room for mysterious and wondrous creatures that the players are NOT familiar with through their own abilities.</p><p></p><p>Magic item abilities? Some you can give the players right away, but others it's best to keep hidden. Suppose you have a custom Rod of Wonder. A player with access to the table might look and say "Okay, there's a 60% chance of getting a beneficial result here," whereas a player without that table has to figure it out in-game. The latter is a lot more fun IMO.</p><p></p><p>I really think the game would be just fine with no familiars or animal companions and very rare summoned creatures. BECMI had Conjure Elemental as a 5th-level spell, and it was dangerous to use, and there were really no other spells or abilities. Having played a 3.5 druid, I can tell you the game moves a lot faster when you skip the zoo (although it's also a lot harder to succeed without the zoo).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Brother MacLaren, post: 4058973, member: 15999"] In previous editions, players were strongly discouraged from looking at the DM sections of books. They didn't know the abilities of monsters or the abilities of magic items. This really, truly, DID increase the fun and the sense of wonder in my experience. That's not nostalgia. Most players that I have known enjoy a sense of mystery and the experience of discovery. When I, as a DM, got a chance to play, I really enjoyed playing in games with creative DMs. Monsters whose abilities I didn't know; magic items with abilities that were mysterious. 3E put way too much [I]information[/I] into players' hands. On reflection, 4E might do better if its summoning and shapechanging rules are truly limited. There would still be enough room for mysterious and wondrous creatures that the players are NOT familiar with through their own abilities. Magic item abilities? Some you can give the players right away, but others it's best to keep hidden. Suppose you have a custom Rod of Wonder. A player with access to the table might look and say "Okay, there's a 60% chance of getting a beneficial result here," whereas a player without that table has to figure it out in-game. The latter is a lot more fun IMO. I really think the game would be just fine with no familiars or animal companions and very rare summoned creatures. BECMI had Conjure Elemental as a 5th-level spell, and it was dangerous to use, and there were really no other spells or abilities. Having played a 3.5 druid, I can tell you the game moves a lot faster when you skip the zoo (although it's also a lot harder to succeed without the zoo). [/QUOTE]
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Confirmed: Magic items and summoned monster stats in PHB
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