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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4060639" data-attributes="member: 40961">You missed the point.  "Running out of ammo" is NOT a consequence of playing a high fire rate character.  Nobody runs out of ammo, ever, unless their DM is being more stingy with magical gear than the rulebook presumes.*  And if he's doing that, you just end up with other, worse consequences.The consequence of playing a character with a high fire rate is being forced to do abstruse, kinda stupid gear management involving bags of holding.  This whole "running out of ammo" thing is sort of a red herring.  Running out of ammo SHOULD be a problem, but in 3e past early levels it is not, thanks to Efficient Quivers (capacity: 60 arrows, cost 1,800 gp) and Bags of Holding (capacity: 83 quivers of 20 arrows, or 1660 arrows, cost 2,500 gp, +83 gp for the arrows).  Even a level 16 archer using Rapid Shot and Haste only fires 6 arrows per round, giving him 10 rounds of combat with an Efficient Quiver, and 276 rounds with the small bag of holding.Counting things, like arrows, is ONLY a good idea if it has a meaningful effect in game.  And how meaningful that effect needs to be depends on how much of a hassle it is to count.  Counting arrows creates two effects.  You have to buy new arrows, and you have to make sure not to run out.  The problem is that you WON'T run out if you take sensible, obvious, rules-determined precautions.  And the cost of buying new arrows for a medium level adventurer is so small that its simply not justifiable.  The hassle of counting arrows is relatively high, unfortunately.  The trivially small cost and low likelihood of running out makes this just an annoyance.This is why I reached my compromise with my DM.  I counted arrows in my quiver, and ignored arrows in my bag.  This left me with the possibility (never happened) of running out of arrows mid fight, and let me avoid doing all kinds of bookkeeping to account for what was usually, quite literally, under 5 gold pieces.*From levels 1 to 5, a ranger plays a lot like the scout did in terms of ammunition conservation.  You get a much more realistic feel in that band, where using up ammunition is a meaningful choice.  So for these levels, the environment of the game provides a rewarding ammunition-counting experience.</blockquote>

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