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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 4061256" data-attributes="member: 32164">Well, it's not a punishment so much as a statement of fact. I can't always run an adventure "off the cuff," and more importantly, I don't want to. If I go to all the trouble of preparing an adventure, I expect that the players will let me run it (more or less) rather than try to poke holes in its internal logic so they can "beat it." The latter may be "fun" for them, but it isn't for me.So, yes, it is a "punishment" in that sense. By saying "we don't want to go on the adventure you've spent all week preparing," the players are collectively telling me "your adventure doesn't look like it'll be any fun." And by doing this before it's even started, they haven't even given it a chance. I think that's horribly disrespectful of my hard work, but whatever. Still, I reserve the right to say: "Fine. But pulling this other adventure you have in mind out of my ass doesn't sound like fun to me tonight. And if I can't have fun, neither can you. If this is what you insist on doing, we won't be doing it tonight."As for why I didn't phrase it this way sooner, one constant problem with hypothetical situations is that they're hypothetical. That means lots of important factors are left open to interpretation. When presented with this hypothetical situation, I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that this was a group that made a habit of this sort of thing. Because to me, people who do this sort of thing tend to do it all the time. I would not enjoy being the DM for such a group, because I don't enjoy constantly flushing my hardwork "down the drain" just because the players want to be "creative" or "clever." I have no problem with my players going "off the rails" once in a while, but if they make a habit of trying to avoid the adventure I've planned, I'm going to stop DMing for them. Because for me, constantly making stuff up isn't any fun. As presented, the players seem to have decided that the adventure will "suck" without even giving it a chance. They're essentially saying they have no faith in their DM. What kind of person would want to DM for such a group? Not I.Some DMs don't prepare anything in advance. They would love a "creative" group like this. Some give players the illusion of choice but actually railroad them into the adventure they have planned by "tweaking it" to fit the player's new agenda. However, let's be clear. That's still a railroad. If you wanted the players to kill goblins in the mountains, and they go kill kobolds in the hills, but you use the same lair maps and almost identical stats, what you've actually done is railroaded the players into your pre-prepared little goblin dungeon and filed the serial numbers off.So, how many of you, when faced with that situation, actually make up a new dungeon and generate new challenges on the fly? Be honest.On topic, I have no problem telling my players they can't use something, even if it's in the PHB. As others have said, it's a game, not a virtual reality simulator. Push too hard on the rules in any direction and they'll break. Obviously, not everyone thinks that's a problem. But I think that touches uncomfortably on "the degree to which the rules define reality" argument again.</blockquote>

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