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<blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 3958589" data-attributes="member: 1003">I knew I read it somewhere! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />On a meta-note, this difference of knowledge between those who have R&amp;C and those who don't (or have it, but just looked at the pictures) is getting annoying.&nbsp; Morrus probably won't compile all the salient points on the 4E info page out of some respect of copyright (even though I'm not sure that would be a violation) or just &quot;good will&quot; to WotC, so the difference will remain essentially until June.&nbsp; I doubt everyone will parse all the threads for the tidbits left lying around.&nbsp; And even that's incomplete.&nbsp;&nbsp; :\ Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.&nbsp; I mean, maybe you don't care <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />, but (1) Why doesn't a mindless vermin fall for the same trick twice? (2) How does a PC who's had a power used against him not &quot;learn that trick&quot; and never fall for it again? (3) Why does a person who actually has and uses the same trick fall for it? (4) In the Displacer Beast example above, can you use powers against it that you used fighting the bandits if the Displacer Beast didn't see you use them?It was not a well thought-out explanation.&nbsp; I'd almost prefer they just said &quot;There is a special magic that only those with a Martial spirit can tap into. It is the magic of Crom, and the secrets of its working is the Riddle of Steel.&quot;&nbsp; It doesn't have to be exactly that, of course, but something.&nbsp; Maybe every mortal has a small Astral Spirit inside him, and Wizards and Fighters tap into it in different ways.&nbsp; Whatever.That's terribly meta-gamey, and would annoy the heck out of me, but: They might.&nbsp; That would make an elven archery contest interesting.I guarantee though we'll get some weird stuff if all those powers are usable at-will outside of combat.&nbsp; There's on ToB maneuver, for instance, that allows you to ignore hardness for one strike.&nbsp; That makes one Sunder per encounter really sick.&nbsp; But what happens if a PC&nbsp; decides to take his maul to a stone wall outside of combat?&nbsp; How quickly could he tunnel through a mountain?&nbsp; How many flying buttresses can be shattered before a whole cathedral comes down?&nbsp; Frankly, I have no idea what the answers are, but I bet some Sunder-happy barbarian with a big-ass hammer will ask you to make rulings on these.As someone said above, PC's come up with weird, weird plans.&nbsp; And nothing allows for weirder plans than at-will, costless activities.&nbsp; I hope there's a one-minute rest rule just to curb the worst of the excesses.&nbsp; It's already funky enough when PC's keep Bags of Holding and Portable Holes handy as a &quot;last ditch, foolproof escape hatch.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Irda Ranger, post: 3958589, member: 1003"] I knew I read it somewhere! ;) On a meta-note, this difference of knowledge between those who have R&C and those who don't (or have it, but just looked at the pictures) is getting annoying. Morrus probably won't compile all the salient points on the 4E info page out of some respect of copyright (even though I'm not sure that would be a violation) or just "good will" to WotC, so the difference will remain essentially until June. I doubt everyone will parse all the threads for the tidbits left lying around. And even that's incomplete. :\ Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I mean, maybe [I]you[/I] don't care ;), but (1) Why doesn't a mindless vermin fall for the same trick twice? (2) How does a PC who's had a power used against him not "learn that trick" and never fall for it again? (3) Why does a person who actually [I]has and uses[/I] the same trick fall for it? (4) In the Displacer Beast example above, can you use powers against it that you used fighting the bandits if the Displacer Beast didn't see you use them? It was not a well thought-out explanation. I'd almost prefer they just said "There is a special magic that only those with a Martial spirit can tap into. It is the magic of Crom, and the secrets of its working is the Riddle of Steel." It doesn't have to be exactly that, of course, but something. Maybe every mortal has a small Astral Spirit inside him, and Wizards and Fighters tap into it in different ways. Whatever. That's terribly meta-gamey, and would annoy the heck out of me, but: They might. That would make an elven archery contest interesting. I guarantee though we'll get some weird stuff if all those powers are usable at-will outside of combat. There's on ToB maneuver, for instance, that allows you to ignore hardness for one strike. That makes one Sunder per encounter really sick. But what happens if a PC decides to take his maul to a stone wall outside of combat? How quickly could he tunnel through a mountain? How many flying buttresses can be shattered before a whole cathedral comes down? Frankly, I have no idea what the answers are, but I bet some Sunder-happy barbarian with a big-ass hammer will ask you to make rulings on these. As someone said above, PC's come up with weird, weird plans. And nothing allows for weirder plans than at-will, costless activities. I hope there's a one-minute rest rule just to curb the worst of the excesses. It's already funky enough when PC's keep Bags of Holding and Portable Holes handy as a "last ditch, foolproof escape hatch." [/QUOTE]

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