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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7716156" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>If I read it right, it's saying in brief that games in general and RPGs in particular are steadily becoming easier on their players as time goes on, in that fewer bad things (he calls these consequences) happen and more good things (rewards) happen either during or as a result of play. And it's correct in saying so.</p><p>Why? There is a point, and there is (for some) an issue.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I'm glad this article was posted; and at least from the RPG side I happen to completely agree with it.</p><p></p><p>Let's look at the trends in negative events (<strong>consequences</strong>) over the years and editions without reference to specific DMs or houserules, just the RAW:</p><p></p><p>Character death and revival:</p><p>- it's harder to die in 4e-5e (though if you do die chances are the whole party's going down with you, as so much in-combat healing allows a group to spread the pain evenly)</p><p>- it's become easier to come back from death (lower-level revival spells in 5e, much lower monetary cost in 4e-5e, chance of revival failure gone since 3e)</p><p>- death has no lasting consequences (permanent loss of Con point gone since 3e, negative level gone since 4e)</p><p></p><p>Other bad things that might happen:</p><p>- level loss became negative level in 3e (easier to recover from) and went away entirely in 4e-5e</p><p>- save-or-die / save-or-removed-of-combat spells and effects have become less common, also their durations have become steadily shorter over the editions</p><p>- magic items and possessions have become more and more durable (i.e. are forced to save less often vs. destruction) with each passing edition</p><p></p><p>The evidence is clear: negative events that may occur during the run of play* have steadily and dramatically decreased over time both in frequency and effect. For some this might make the game more enjoyable. For others, like me, it actually makes the game worse; as getting the reward without taking the risk just somehow doesn't feel as much like getting a reward. Hard to articulate; thus I just hope you can see what I'm getting at.</p><p></p><p>* - there's a whole other aspect to this regarding character creation and how the race-class-build options available have steadily opened up over the editions and thus become "easier"; here I'm just looking at run-of-play stuff once the characters hit tie field.</p><p></p><p>Looking at <strong>rewards</strong> gives a less clear picture, as while it's very debateable whether the rewards have increased there's no doubt they have greatly changed as the editions have come and gone.</p><p></p><p>Early editions saw treasure - be it gold, magic items, whatever - as their primary reward. Level advancement, however, wasn't really seen as much of a reward - it just happened, now and then. Another reward, of a sort, was the followers-stronghold goal one could achieve at or after name level. And 2e - and only 2e - also seemed to see the story itself as a reward, in an odd sort of way.</p><p></p><p>3e kind of tried to have both frequent level-ups and treasure as primary rewards - of all the editions it probably goes furthest toward a high-risk high-reward model. But the stronghold business went away, never to return.</p><p></p><p>4e-5e have really gone for level-ups as the primary reward while sharply cutting back on treasure of all kinds. In 5e, for example, by RAW you can't even sell your magic items (such as you might ever get) for cash.</p><p></p><p>Whether this shift in basic reward from treasure to level-ups is a feature or a bug is something we could argue about till the cows come home. But that the shift has happened is undeniable.</p><p></p><p>Lan-"this may or may not have been more well-written than the original article, but it was thought out and I hope it's informative"-efan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7716156, member: 29398"] If I read it right, it's saying in brief that games in general and RPGs in particular are steadily becoming easier on their players as time goes on, in that fewer bad things (he calls these consequences) happen and more good things (rewards) happen either during or as a result of play. And it's correct in saying so. Why? There is a point, and there is (for some) an issue. Personally, I'm glad this article was posted; and at least from the RPG side I happen to completely agree with it. Let's look at the trends in negative events ([B]consequences[/B]) over the years and editions without reference to specific DMs or houserules, just the RAW: Character death and revival: - it's harder to die in 4e-5e (though if you do die chances are the whole party's going down with you, as so much in-combat healing allows a group to spread the pain evenly) - it's become easier to come back from death (lower-level revival spells in 5e, much lower monetary cost in 4e-5e, chance of revival failure gone since 3e) - death has no lasting consequences (permanent loss of Con point gone since 3e, negative level gone since 4e) Other bad things that might happen: - level loss became negative level in 3e (easier to recover from) and went away entirely in 4e-5e - save-or-die / save-or-removed-of-combat spells and effects have become less common, also their durations have become steadily shorter over the editions - magic items and possessions have become more and more durable (i.e. are forced to save less often vs. destruction) with each passing edition The evidence is clear: negative events that may occur during the run of play* have steadily and dramatically decreased over time both in frequency and effect. For some this might make the game more enjoyable. For others, like me, it actually makes the game worse; as getting the reward without taking the risk just somehow doesn't feel as much like getting a reward. Hard to articulate; thus I just hope you can see what I'm getting at. * - there's a whole other aspect to this regarding character creation and how the race-class-build options available have steadily opened up over the editions and thus become "easier"; here I'm just looking at run-of-play stuff once the characters hit tie field. Looking at [B]rewards[/B] gives a less clear picture, as while it's very debateable whether the rewards have increased there's no doubt they have greatly changed as the editions have come and gone. Early editions saw treasure - be it gold, magic items, whatever - as their primary reward. Level advancement, however, wasn't really seen as much of a reward - it just happened, now and then. Another reward, of a sort, was the followers-stronghold goal one could achieve at or after name level. And 2e - and only 2e - also seemed to see the story itself as a reward, in an odd sort of way. 3e kind of tried to have both frequent level-ups and treasure as primary rewards - of all the editions it probably goes furthest toward a high-risk high-reward model. But the stronghold business went away, never to return. 4e-5e have really gone for level-ups as the primary reward while sharply cutting back on treasure of all kinds. In 5e, for example, by RAW you can't even sell your magic items (such as you might ever get) for cash. Whether this shift in basic reward from treasure to level-ups is a feature or a bug is something we could argue about till the cows come home. But that the shift has happened is undeniable. Lan-"this may or may not have been more well-written than the original article, but it was thought out and I hope it's informative"-efan [/QUOTE]
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