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<blockquote data-quote="Libramarian" data-source="post: 7716337" data-attributes="member: 6688858">It's just the pain and embarrassment when your character dies. It's gruelling to roll up a new one and start over. It's especially gruelling to not have anyone else to blame. Can't blame the DM (assuming &quot;hygienic&quot; practices), can't blame the adventure (assuming a sandbox rather than AP). You just have to eat it.Although I wouldn't say the gruelling-ness itself is what I like about this way of playing. I think Luke Crane describes the pleasure of old school dungeoncrawling very well in <a href="https://plus.google.com/+lukecrane/posts/Q8qRhCw7az5" target="_blank">this post</a> (which I know you're a fan of):&quot;I realized at that moment that this group had done something all too&nbsp; rare in my experiences with roleplaying games. Rather than bending the&nbsp; game to our predilections, we bent our collective will to the game. We&nbsp; learned it, and it taught us. It taught us how to play it, but it also&nbsp; taught us lessons.&quot;It's refreshing to play an RPG that doesn't care what you're trying to do with it, where the PCs are basically avatars and the focus is on the players' learning curve rather than the DM's story or the PCs' dramatic development. It's almost more like work than play, but stimulating work, not drudgery. Compared to most RPG play I find it to be, as the poet Thom Gunn said after reading too much &quot;very poetic poetry&quot;, like drinking water after too much birthday cake.I always like old style gamist D&amp;D to poker in terms of the balance&nbsp; of luck and skill. If you just look at an individual hand, you'd think&nbsp; luck dominates, but after several hours of play, the skilled players&nbsp; probably have the big stacks.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Libramarian, post: 7716337, member: 6688858"] It's just the pain and embarrassment when your character dies. It's gruelling to roll up a new one and start over. It's especially gruelling to not have anyone else to blame. Can't blame the DM (assuming "hygienic" practices), can't blame the adventure (assuming a sandbox rather than AP). You just have to eat it. Although I wouldn't say the gruelling-ness itself is what I like about this way of playing. I think Luke Crane describes the pleasure of old school dungeoncrawling very well in [URL="https://plus.google.com/+lukecrane/posts/Q8qRhCw7az5"]this post[/URL] (which I know you're a fan of): "I realized at that moment that this group had done something all too rare in my experiences with roleplaying games. Rather than bending the game to our predilections, we bent our collective will to the game. We learned it, and it taught us. It taught us how to play it, but it also taught us lessons." It's refreshing to play an RPG that doesn't care what you're trying to do with it, where the PCs are basically avatars and the focus is on the players' learning curve rather than the DM's story or the PCs' dramatic development. It's almost more like work than play, but stimulating work, not drudgery. Compared to most RPG play I find it to be, as the poet Thom Gunn said after reading too much "very poetic poetry", like drinking water after too much birthday cake. I always like old style gamist D&D to poker in terms of the balance of luck and skill. If you just look at an individual hand, you'd think luck dominates, but after several hours of play, the skilled players probably have the big stacks. [/QUOTE]

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