Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7716681" data-attributes="member: 22779">That's not quite what I meant.Obviously in a game where you have a higher random chance of dying, then the game probably feels harder.&nbsp; Fair enough.&nbsp; I'd agree with that.What I disagree with is the notion from the OP that increased random deaths somehow equates to better play - which is what the OP is saying.&nbsp; That we've gone from award based play where players are awarded for excellent play, to reward based play where you accrue your benefits simply from participation.&nbsp; Random effects can certainly increase difficulty, but, like the &quot;winning the lottery&quot; analogy, doesn't have anything to do with play being somehow inferior (which is what the OP is positing) to how people played in the past.&nbsp; There are far too many examples of players being rewarded for blind luck to be able to say that previous games &quot;awarded&quot; play.&nbsp; I won't speak for anyone else, but, if that's the impression I gave, I'm sorry.&nbsp; That is very much not what I meant.&nbsp; See, that's the trick.&nbsp; The purpose of randomness in D&amp;D is to increase difficulty.&nbsp; Fair enough.&nbsp; But, since it's random, it cannot be completely accounted for (and sometimes not at all) and players are rewarded or punished for doing nothing.&nbsp; Remember, the point of this thread isn't to poop on old school play.&nbsp; I loves me some old school play.&nbsp; But, the point of this thread was to claim that new games aren't challenging.Which isn't true.But, again, remember the context of the thread.&nbsp; The OP is claiming that players are &quot;earning their awards&quot; in old school play.&nbsp; What, exactly, did your player do to &quot;earn&quot; that fighter with an 18/54 strength and it's attendant 10% XP bonus?And, now, we get to the heart of things.&nbsp; The dismissive condescension towards other play styles.&nbsp; Nice.&nbsp; Reducing randomness means that you just &quot;act&quot; like you've earned it?&nbsp; Snort.&nbsp; I'll tell that to every Chess champion I meet.&nbsp; The funny thing is, the gamist in me LOATHES random chance.&nbsp; How is that a test of your skill when random chance sends all your skill wahoonie shaped?&nbsp; Sorry, but, for me, in a truly gamist game, it's a test of my SKILL, not a test of my dice fapping skills.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7716681, member: 22779"] That's not quite what I meant. Obviously in a game where you have a higher random chance of dying, then the game probably feels harder. Fair enough. I'd agree with that. What I disagree with is the notion from the OP that increased random deaths somehow equates to better play - which is what the OP is saying. That we've gone from award based play where players are awarded for excellent play, to reward based play where you accrue your benefits simply from participation. Random effects can certainly increase difficulty, but, like the "winning the lottery" analogy, doesn't have anything to do with play being somehow inferior (which is what the OP is positing) to how people played in the past. There are far too many examples of players being rewarded for blind luck to be able to say that previous games "awarded" play. I won't speak for anyone else, but, if that's the impression I gave, I'm sorry. That is very much not what I meant. See, that's the trick. The purpose of randomness in D&D is to increase difficulty. Fair enough. But, since it's random, it cannot be completely accounted for (and sometimes not at all) and players are rewarded or punished for doing nothing. Remember, the point of this thread isn't to poop on old school play. I loves me some old school play. But, the point of this thread was to claim that new games aren't challenging. Which isn't true. But, again, remember the context of the thread. The OP is claiming that players are "earning their awards" in old school play. What, exactly, did your player do to "earn" that fighter with an 18/54 strength and it's attendant 10% XP bonus? And, now, we get to the heart of things. The dismissive condescension towards other play styles. Nice. Reducing randomness means that you just "act" like you've earned it? Snort. I'll tell that to every Chess champion I meet. The funny thing is, the gamist in me LOATHES random chance. How is that a test of your skill when random chance sends all your skill wahoonie shaped? Sorry, but, for me, in a truly gamist game, it's a test of my SKILL, not a test of my dice fapping skills. [/QUOTE]

Verification