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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Monayuris" data-source="post: 7797079" data-attributes="member: 6859536">I'm not arguing anything of that sort. I just think goal and approach is a tool that is best used with active player action in a known DM location.Sometimes, ability checks can be used to establish a baseline. For example, if a party wishes to move stealthily through an area. The act of moving stealthily pretty much warrants an ability check (if you are running a dungeon with wandering encounters, you can't always know if there is a creature to roll against). I guess the goal is to not be detected and the approach is to do that by moving very quietly. But in a situation where you have wandering monsters, even the DM doesn't know if there will be creatures to oppose such action. I see two uses for ability (skill) checks. A baseline that is applied to situations outside of player control (which should be triggered by player choice to begin with) and the potential result of a 'goal and approach' interaction.</blockquote>