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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7797889" data-attributes="member: 29398">Ah.  As the conversation had thus far been mostly about D&D, I didn't realize you'd broadened the scope that much.Interestingly, the answer to this ties in with the goals involved.  See below.Sorry, this reference is lost on me - what's Metal Gear, other than electric guitars and a wall of amps?Sometimes doing this is cool.  But if there's something behind the door that's also stealthy, do you telegraph that too?I don't want to know what they do about something in reaction, I want to know what they proactively do in general before any of those somethings come up.And now.  This... ...directly conflicts with... ...this.Without a strong element of realism backing things up it becomes impossible to make decisions based on what people would do in that scenario.  Put another way, without realism as a goal your other goals become unattainable.And here, by 'realism' I don't necessarily mean things being true to the real world (though that's always a good start for those who don't design their own settings), I mean a setting that has its own built-in realism based on strongly enforced internal consistency and reliable cause-effect loops.And some of that internal consistency is represented by the PCs not always knowing everything...and sometimes barely knowing anything...about their situation.  You set out to sneak down a hallway past 5 doors, all closed.  You don't know how many, if any, of those doors might have observers or threats (or treasure!) behind them - hell, for all you know one or more of the doors is an illusion!If there's a dog behind one of the doors it might smell you and rattle its chain a bit, or even bark.  If there's a guard behind another door she might hear you and raise the alarm; or not.  The prisoner (who, if released, could become a useful ally) behind a third door might hear you and try to get your attention.  A fourth door is an illusion with a trap behind it - a pure thief-catcher.  And the fifth door is, well, just a door; with nothing behind it but a closet.How many stealth checks?Conversely, all five doors might hide no threat or problem at all.How many stealth checks?As the PCs don't know what's behind the doors, the answer to "How many stealth checks?" should be the same in either case.  Now what that specific answer might be will of course vary from DM to DM - some might call for one per door, some might just let one roll ride for the whole hallway, and so on.My point is that it in fact doesn't serve that goal well at all.Your goal is to "create opportunities for the players to imagine themselves as other people, in a fictional scenario".  That's cool!  But it only works if they players are exposed to the fictional scenario as it would really be, i.e. with info that the PCs don't and can't know kept hidden from the players and not unduly telegraphed or hinted at. And yes, this naturally means that sometimes you're gonna hit 'em with a 'gotcha'; but that too is only realistic.</blockquote>

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