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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7798919" data-attributes="member: 6779196">Yeah, I agree.The “meaningful consequences” part is probably the most controversial part of the process, I think in part because there is no consensus on what constitutes meaningful consequence. What Oofta might consider an action without meaningful consequence for failure and still resolve with a check, Elfcrusher might agree has no meaningful consequence and decide to resolve narratively, and I might say does indeed have a meaningful consequence, though it might be a consequence I deem too artificial and would likewise resolve narratively.Ultimately, I think the point of the meaningful consequence line is to avoid situations like I experienced in a recent game I was playing in: We were looking for a door with a particular symbol on it in a dark alley. DM asked for Perception checks, which we all failed. There was an awkward silence as the DM realized he had maneuvered himself into a corner. One of the other players jokingly said, “Can I try looking harder?” and the DM said, “I guess after enough time you would eventually find it anyway.” If he had thought about what the consequences of failing that Perception check would have been before he had asked for it, he might have just had us find the door we were looking for without a check. Or, he might have prepared an encounter with some street thugs who would come down the alley and harass us if we didn’t find the door quickly enough. Either way, we would have avoided that situation where everyone can clearly see the artifice of the check.I prefer “character building decisions” and “moment to moment decisions” over “character skill” and “player skill”, respectively. But I agree that a mix of both having an impact on your chances of success is desirable. In my experience, most people prefer one have a greater influence on chances of success than the other, though it’s of course a spectrum. Personally I prefer moment to moment decisions be the primary factor, and character building decisions to be the “insurance against failure,” as Iserith puts it. The real question is, how much of role should the random element of the dice play? And here I think we get a lot more disagreement. Personally, I prefer their role be as minimal as possible, only coming into play when an outcome cannot easily be fairly determined without them. But many people really like the thrill that random element can introduce, and many like the creative exercise of interpreting the details of an action based on its randomly generated outcome.</blockquote>

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