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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7799660" data-attributes="member: 6779196">I know you were asking Maxperson, but I’d like to throw in my twocents as the person who first brought up the argument that arm wrestling is an approach to a goal, rather than a goal itself.No. You want to win the arm wrestling contest for a reason. Maybe it’s to impress someone, maybe it’s to humiliate your opponent, maybe it’s for a prize of some sort, maybe it’s just for your own sense of satisfaction, maybe it’s to alleviate boredom, but there's always a reason. J think the last two I mentioned are the closest you can come to just winning being your goal, but even in those cases, you have a goal, and arm wrestling is the means you’ve chosen to attempt to achieve that goal. Much like how picking a lock isn’t a goal, it’s an approach to the goal of getting a locked door open. It’s important to be able to identify what you want to get out of performing an action.I think a lot of the protestations about the goal and approach framework requiring “player skill” or “magic words” or what ever other blithe term people want to use comes from misunderstanding this. If you’re thinking of picking the lock, or winning the contest, or hitting the orc with your sword as the goal, then naturally it’s going to seem like what the supporters of this method are asking for is a detailed description of what performing that action looks like, and I don’t blame people for thinking that sounds excessive. What these complaints fail to realize is that under the framework being discussed, picking a lock, winning a contest, hitting an orc with a sword, these things are all approaches. The goal might be to get the door open, or to win the prize money, or to incapacitate the orc.</blockquote>

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