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<blockquote data-quote="Xetheral" data-source="post: 7800612" data-attributes="member: 6802765"><p>Thanks for clarifying again. I guess I don't see any relevant distinction between "checking" and "looking" at my table where all traps can potentially be noticed without risking triggering them. Any character is going to try non-risky methods first, so I don't see the value (at my table) of asking them to specify whether their approach "checking the lock for traps" involves looking in the keyhole (triggering a Wis (Perception) check) or probing with thieves tools (triggering a non-check resolution based on the mechanics of the trap): it's always going to be the former unless the player is making a mistake that the character would know better than to make.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't see a practical distinction between always telegraphing a trap and setting a passive perception DC of 0 to notice the trap. Either way the trap <em>always</em> fails: the primary threat is removed and the trap turns into a terrain obstacle.</p><p></p><p>One possible distinction I see would be if you only telegraph traps to PCs, and let NPCs blunder into traps that cannot be detected via Perception and without the benefit of telegraphed foreknowledge. If so the purpose of the distinction makes sense, but it's such an overt form of PC plot armor that I wouldn't be comfortable with it at my table. (For reference, I don't cap a PC-made trap's potential bonus, so NPCs might autofail their Passive Perception checks unlike PCs, but that's a much subtler form of plot armor.)</p><p></p><p>Out of curiosity, do you run a lot of uninhabited dungeons with still-functional, self-resetting traps? The telegraphing methods you describe would only rarely work at my table: almost all my dungeons are inhabited, so the signs of the trap would have been removed when the trap was reset, and the occupants certainly aren't going to advertise their defenses. The rare uninhabited dungeons that were still sealed would have pristine un-triggered traps, and unsealed ones exposed to the elements that might have previously triggered will rarely have been built by a culture with enough engineering expertise to make durable trap mechanisms, let alone self-resetting ones.</p><p></p><p>Sure, in the exceptional dungeon where it makes sense I'll happily include an already-triggered trap and its grisly outcome, but my motivation for doing so would either be adding flavorful color, or else telegraphing the likelihood of other traps in the same facility. At that point the trap itself isn't a threat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>May I ask how you make use of Passive Perception at your table? It sounds like characters with high Passive Perception at your table are no more likely to notice traps than any other characters?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xetheral, post: 7800612, member: 6802765"] Thanks for clarifying again. I guess I don't see any relevant distinction between "checking" and "looking" at my table where all traps can potentially be noticed without risking triggering them. Any character is going to try non-risky methods first, so I don't see the value (at my table) of asking them to specify whether their approach "checking the lock for traps" involves looking in the keyhole (triggering a Wis (Perception) check) or probing with thieves tools (triggering a non-check resolution based on the mechanics of the trap): it's always going to be the former unless the player is making a mistake that the character would know better than to make. I don't see a practical distinction between always telegraphing a trap and setting a passive perception DC of 0 to notice the trap. Either way the trap [I]always[/I] fails: the primary threat is removed and the trap turns into a terrain obstacle. One possible distinction I see would be if you only telegraph traps to PCs, and let NPCs blunder into traps that cannot be detected via Perception and without the benefit of telegraphed foreknowledge. If so the purpose of the distinction makes sense, but it's such an overt form of PC plot armor that I wouldn't be comfortable with it at my table. (For reference, I don't cap a PC-made trap's potential bonus, so NPCs might autofail their Passive Perception checks unlike PCs, but that's a much subtler form of plot armor.) Out of curiosity, do you run a lot of uninhabited dungeons with still-functional, self-resetting traps? The telegraphing methods you describe would only rarely work at my table: almost all my dungeons are inhabited, so the signs of the trap would have been removed when the trap was reset, and the occupants certainly aren't going to advertise their defenses. The rare uninhabited dungeons that were still sealed would have pristine un-triggered traps, and unsealed ones exposed to the elements that might have previously triggered will rarely have been built by a culture with enough engineering expertise to make durable trap mechanisms, let alone self-resetting ones. Sure, in the exceptional dungeon where it makes sense I'll happily include an already-triggered trap and its grisly outcome, but my motivation for doing so would either be adding flavorful color, or else telegraphing the likelihood of other traps in the same facility. At that point the trap itself isn't a threat. May I ask how you make use of Passive Perception at your table? It sounds like characters with high Passive Perception at your table are no more likely to notice traps than any other characters? [/QUOTE]
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