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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7801137" data-attributes="member: 16814">I understand where you're coming from.  I had the same opinions myself, and argued somewhat snarkily with [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER] once upon a recent time.  There's a kind of shift in perspective necessary, and I know that's not helpful but I can't really seem to find a good way to get it across.  I've tried to explain it how I came into it, but that's not worked.  Anyway, the thing is, that once you've turned that corner, you'll see that there have been tons of good examples of play in goal and approach -- they just don't look the same as what you're used to.Take the recent Insight thread.  There was a lot of asking how you'd use goal and approach to tell if someone was lying and how it feels like you're looking for specific forms of phrasing to get to the same end.  And, yeah, that happened, largely because there was an attempt to engage that example.  But the truth is that, largely, telling if the NPC is lying is rarely going to be a big thing in goal and approach.  The NPC lying to you is going to be part of the handle that engages the players in the fiction so that they can now use goal and approach to change the fiction.  Insight to tell if an NPC is lying is really just not much of a thing outside of a few occasions.  Insight to gain, well, insight into what an NPC cares about so you can leverage that to get them to come clean?  That's the ticket.  So, in that sense, there's just not really a good example because it's going to go pear-shaped immediately due to what actions are declared.  But a good example would be saying that this NPC is definitely hiding something and what are you going to do to find out what?</blockquote>

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