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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7801275" data-attributes="member: 6801845">How about this.&nbsp; I don't see an issue.&nbsp; In many cases some things just happen, there is no uncertainty to the outcome so there is no roll.&nbsp; If someone can repeat a check as many times as they want, I still don't guarantee that they will succeed.&nbsp; Some rare items may be virtually impossible to forge, even if we assume the forger eventually rolls a 20.&nbsp; In addition, it's assuming that the person assessing the forger is any good at assessing forgeries.&nbsp; What may look like a validly forged signature to me* may not look like one to someone who is an expert on forgeries.As the DMG states, if there's no consequence of failure there's no need for a roll.&nbsp; I simply view consequence of failure including &quot;no progress towards the goal&quot; as stated in the PHB.&nbsp; Not being able to tell if an NPC is telling the truth or not is a valid consequence.Where I may be in &quot;just the way I run it&quot; territory is that I also consider a consequence to not include just consequences to the PCs.&nbsp; I also consider consequences to my players.&nbsp; I think it's more fun when I play and for my players if the players only know what the PCs know or perceive.Players will of course have meta-game knowledge, especially when it comes to monsters.&nbsp; But not if it's a custom monster.&nbsp; They don't know as much about my world as I do.*Or my buddy in grade school if he actually existed.&nbsp; But he's hypothetical.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7801275, member: 6801845"] How about this. I don't see an issue. In many cases some things just happen, there is no uncertainty to the outcome so there is no roll. If someone can repeat a check as many times as they want, I still don't guarantee that they will succeed. Some rare items may be virtually impossible to forge, even if we assume the forger eventually rolls a 20. In addition, it's assuming that the person assessing the forger is any good at assessing forgeries. What may look like a validly forged signature to me* may not look like one to someone who is an expert on forgeries. As the DMG states, if there's no consequence of failure there's no need for a roll. I simply view consequence of failure including "no progress towards the goal" as stated in the PHB. Not being able to tell if an NPC is telling the truth or not is a valid consequence. Where I may be in "just the way I run it" territory is that I also consider a consequence to not include just consequences to the PCs. I also consider consequences to my players. I think it's more fun when I play and for my players if the players only know what the PCs know or perceive. Players will of course have meta-game knowledge, especially when it comes to monsters. But not if it's a custom monster. They don't know as much about my world as I do. [I]*Or my buddy in grade school if he actually existed. But he's hypothetical.[/I] [/QUOTE]

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