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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7801439" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Disclaimer - I will refer to sight mostly for ease but obviously percrption investigation notice etc may include any or many senses. A technique I use often involves an unexpected sense being the feature that is picked up on that exposes a secret- like the door and passage being secret and hidden but "found" due to the rotting smell that seems stronger there because the door was not some hermetically sealed airlock. In the case of inobvious, first there is the passive score. So, the player may not need to ask a thing. Their character may spot it right off as soon as line of sight exists.If you move to active perception rolls that can indeed be as simple as you described - a "spot check" to use common jargon we use in differentiating between look and search or study - with us having a common understanding of what that means. The cost there is the action and time and the risk there includes setbacks. If it changes from in obvious to obvious as the scene plays out, then no check is needed. That might be just by gaining advantage by actions and circumstances and shifting your passive score.For your secret - if I understand your use of warranted to mean you include trlegraphs - to meGAACK!!!Sorry for premature post. App keeps glitching on the new servers.For your secret - if I understand your use of warranted to mean you include telegraphs - to me whether or not there are telegraphs is dependent on scene. I have zero problems with there being unteleraphed elements in a setup. I have zero problem with their being things in a setup that its entirely possible characters might miss. I dont make those roadblocks or choke points of course. Usually, when I use what is described as telegraphing in these parts it's for scenes ehere the hidden thing has been abandoned or is in an unusual state but would have been untelegraphed in other cases such as routine use. So, rotting masses producing smells, flooding leaving signs, long abandoned but recently disturbed etc etc etc. But yes, general actions likely wont bypass "secret" in normal working order so barring some exceptional features of the character or interactions, it fails. Spotting an invisible object by looking fails unless there is more to it.</blockquote>

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