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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7806758" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>I've no use for 'GSN terminology' either, hence the small 'g' on gamist.</p><p></p><p>Put another way: I see the game as more of an exercise in trying to simulate* the game world and how these things would happen in it, rather than as a game for its own sake (as opposed to most games where the game for its own sake is the only reason you're playing it).</p><p></p><p>* - where reasonably possible, in full knowledge that no simulation can ever be anywhere near perfect.</p><p></p><p>You could, but this very quickly (i.e. immediately!) runs into issues with players taking unfair advantage and always just happening to be able to justify having the required knowledge. No thanks.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, to me this is a problem with 3e-and-forward's overly-elaborate skill system.</p><p></p><p>And yes, sometimes a strong person can fail on a relatively easy strength check just by bad luck or not getting the leverage right or whatever, and then have the not-so-strong person nail it in one and make the strong guy look like a fool. It happens - I mean, how many times have you struggled and failed to open a jar and then had someone who you know to be weaker than you come along and pop it on the first try?</p><p></p><p>Not quite. The d20 roll sets the limit of how well your character can possibly do in this situation, against a set difficulty that just sits there.</p><p></p><p>The difficulty of a particular task doesn't change, but the PC's ability to overcome it isn't set in stone. (and yes this means PCs fail far more often than if take-20 was in effect, but I've no problem with that). Put another way, a PC might blow through some DC 17 task (e.g. opening a stuck door; roll adds to 23) and then two hours later completely fail on a very similar DC 17 task (roll adds to 10) and need to find a plan B.</p><p></p><p>Narratively, all this tells me is that whatever approach was used at the first door for some reason doesn't work here. Were the order of the rolls reversed it'd be even easier: lessons learned from the first door were successfully applied against the second. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>That does match with general 3e design philosophy, though, in that they intentionally tried to turn more mechanics over to the player side. Not that edition's best selling feature, IMO. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7806758, member: 29398"] I've no use for 'GSN terminology' either, hence the small 'g' on gamist. Put another way: I see the game as more of an exercise in trying to simulate* the game world and how these things would happen in it, rather than as a game for its own sake (as opposed to most games where the game for its own sake is the only reason you're playing it). * - where reasonably possible, in full knowledge that no simulation can ever be anywhere near perfect. You could, but this very quickly (i.e. immediately!) runs into issues with players taking unfair advantage and always just happening to be able to justify having the required knowledge. No thanks. Yeah, to me this is a problem with 3e-and-forward's overly-elaborate skill system. And yes, sometimes a strong person can fail on a relatively easy strength check just by bad luck or not getting the leverage right or whatever, and then have the not-so-strong person nail it in one and make the strong guy look like a fool. It happens - I mean, how many times have you struggled and failed to open a jar and then had someone who you know to be weaker than you come along and pop it on the first try? Not quite. The d20 roll sets the limit of how well your character can possibly do in this situation, against a set difficulty that just sits there. The difficulty of a particular task doesn't change, but the PC's ability to overcome it isn't set in stone. (and yes this means PCs fail far more often than if take-20 was in effect, but I've no problem with that). Put another way, a PC might blow through some DC 17 task (e.g. opening a stuck door; roll adds to 23) and then two hours later completely fail on a very similar DC 17 task (roll adds to 10) and need to find a plan B. Narratively, all this tells me is that whatever approach was used at the first door for some reason doesn't work here. Were the order of the rolls reversed it'd be even easier: lessons learned from the first door were successfully applied against the second. :) That does match with general 3e design philosophy, though, in that they intentionally tried to turn more mechanics over to the player side. Not that edition's best selling feature, IMO. :) [/QUOTE]
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