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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7809584" data-attributes="member: 16814">Ah.  If I may, I think the issue then is that you're using goal and approach in the sense many other games use it, games that use this framework for everything and always adjudicate from the fiction first and only using the fiction.  Those games use mechanics that aren't based on the fictional positioning, but instead provide inputs into the fiction for change at specific points.  Like BitD, where the success mechanic is totally agnostic to the fiction (you roll your pool, which the player picks, and 6 succeeds, 4-5 succeeds with cost, 1-3 fails).  What this roll tells the players of the game, though, is entirely dependent on  the fictional positioning.In 5e, though, even if you're striving to put the fiction first, there are a number of mechanics that specifically say that you can add Y to the fiction, regardless of it's current state, but only X times per time period.  In this case, if the player presses the button, a fixed fictional outcome springs out, but they don't have to do anything to predicate this or justify it in the fictional positioning beforehand.  Like Barbarian Rage.  I get to Rage whenever I press the button, up to X times per day, and it says I get these things in the fiction.  I don't have to do anything to set this up -- there's no specific goal and approach to create the situation for Rage, I just press the button.  I see the disconnect if you're looking for the fictional positioning and assuming goal and approach is how you set up that positioning to do the thing, then Rage doesn't fit this proposition.I think, though, that if you're coming from a 5e perspective, these kinds of things are just accepted.  That using Rage still fits goal and approach because you have a goal and approach, even if it's locked in place, because the DM still has to authorize it in the game.  While this is almost always going to be auto-success, there are some situations where the DM may determine this action declaration fails.  So, since the DM is still providing the arbitration of the action, and we can discern a discrete goal and approach (even if very short), it still fits the concept.  Largely because this concept of goal and approach, while having a lot in common with other game's usages out of combat, is formulated inside the 5e paradigm and must account for the x/day style abilities that other games just skip.</blockquote>

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