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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7811000" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>5e does have something it calls “passive checks,” but by my reading they are meant to work differently than passive Perception and Insight did in 4e. The PHB describes passive checks as being used to represent the average effort of a task performed continuously, or at the DM’s discretion, to make checks in secret. One could certainly argue that a character is repeatedly observing the body language of the people they are in conversation with to try to determine their intentions, or that it is appropriate to make a secret check to see if the PC notices when the NPC lies, and for a long time that was how I handled these situations. But I found it to be unsatisfactory. It requires me to assume PC behavior, which I don’t like to do, and the result is just that sometimes the dice tell me not to give the players the information they would need to be able to engage with the hazard. I’d rather not hide the game from my players.</p><p></p><p>It certainly is very old-school, at least by my understanding of old-school D&D.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yep, though as I said above, I do this less than I used to, cause the only effect it seemed to have was locking players out of being able to interact with the game based on the random result of a die roll.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I more or less do this. There are some times when the NPCs roll, such as when attacking PCs in combat, but most of the time it’s the players making rolls in my games, abs they’re always being made when they’re relevant to the action (the classic example being stealth - I don’t ask you to roll when you first declare sneaking off, I ask you to do it when you’re at risk of being discovered).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I endeavor to do the latter. In particular, I look to characters’ backgrounds and Proficiencies to inform what additional details their characters might be aware of. When a player wants to learn something about a feature of the environment that they don’t already know as a result of their prior training, they need to take some sort of investigative action, perhaps by closely examining something, or interacting with it. To give this a more concrete example, let’s imagine an idol found in a dungeon. A character proficient in the Religion skill might know that it depicts the Dwarves goddess Mordra, who presides over the dead (I’m making this up as I go, but presumably this information would be determined ahead of time in an actual game), and that statues of her are often reliquaries. A character proficient in History might recognize that it is made from a rare mineral that was mined in the underdark before the dwarf/duergar schism. A character proficient in Arcana might recognize that this mineral has unique resonant properties that make it ideal for use as an arcane focus. A character with the stonecunning feature would probably know both of those details. If the players want to find out if it has magical properties, they could handle it during a short rest, as described in the rules, or cast Detect Magic and/or Identify. If they want to find out if it has any secret compartments or mechanisms, they could examine it for any seams, feel it for catches or moving parts. etc, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7811000, member: 6779196"] 5e does have something it calls “passive checks,” but by my reading they are meant to work differently than passive Perception and Insight did in 4e. The PHB describes passive checks as being used to represent the average effort of a task performed continuously, or at the DM’s discretion, to make checks in secret. One could certainly argue that a character is repeatedly observing the body language of the people they are in conversation with to try to determine their intentions, or that it is appropriate to make a secret check to see if the PC notices when the NPC lies, and for a long time that was how I handled these situations. But I found it to be unsatisfactory. It requires me to assume PC behavior, which I don’t like to do, and the result is just that sometimes the dice tell me not to give the players the information they would need to be able to engage with the hazard. I’d rather not hide the game from my players. It certainly is very old-school, at least by my understanding of old-school D&D. Yep, though as I said above, I do this less than I used to, cause the only effect it seemed to have was locking players out of being able to interact with the game based on the random result of a die roll. I more or less do this. There are some times when the NPCs roll, such as when attacking PCs in combat, but most of the time it’s the players making rolls in my games, abs they’re always being made when they’re relevant to the action (the classic example being stealth - I don’t ask you to roll when you first declare sneaking off, I ask you to do it when you’re at risk of being discovered). I endeavor to do the latter. In particular, I look to characters’ backgrounds and Proficiencies to inform what additional details their characters might be aware of. When a player wants to learn something about a feature of the environment that they don’t already know as a result of their prior training, they need to take some sort of investigative action, perhaps by closely examining something, or interacting with it. To give this a more concrete example, let’s imagine an idol found in a dungeon. A character proficient in the Religion skill might know that it depicts the Dwarves goddess Mordra, who presides over the dead (I’m making this up as I go, but presumably this information would be determined ahead of time in an actual game), and that statues of her are often reliquaries. A character proficient in History might recognize that it is made from a rare mineral that was mined in the underdark before the dwarf/duergar schism. A character proficient in Arcana might recognize that this mineral has unique resonant properties that make it ideal for use as an arcane focus. A character with the stonecunning feature would probably know both of those details. If the players want to find out if it has magical properties, they could handle it during a short rest, as described in the rules, or cast Detect Magic and/or Identify. If they want to find out if it has any secret compartments or mechanisms, they could examine it for any seams, feel it for catches or moving parts. etc, etc. [/QUOTE]
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