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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8381824" data-attributes="member: 72555">Also, the Mongols had plenty of tech.They had well bred domesticated horses, the stirrup, and composite bows.&nbsp; All of which are technology.They just don't involve smelting ore.In a fantasy world, trained and bred fantasy creatures can be a thing.&nbsp; As would be fantasy plants and monster body parts being used to construct weapons.Magic, like spells or other abilities, can be learned without having access to iron.&nbsp; A civilization where 1 in 3 people know a spell on the scale of &quot;lighting bolt&quot; would beat a pre-modern &quot;industrial&quot; civilization hands down.Like, imagine a civilization where the average citizen is a T1 druid or ranger.&nbsp; Put them up against a civilization that can mass produce chainmail, polearms and crossbows, and the average soldier was a &quot;guard&quot; from the monster manual.&nbsp; I think the druid/rangers would win, no &quot;less than&quot; involved....The &quot;Settled&quot; (Road and Wall) people are the typical D&amp;D &quot;commoners&quot; and use rituals to build protection around their settlements.&nbsp; The walls and roads are reinforced with magic, their crop yield is boosted by magical fertilizer.&nbsp; A relatively small percentage of the population does farming thanks to the magical boost, the population is highly urban and full of crafters, etc.The &quot;Nomad&quot; (Tree and Sky) people are almost all &quot;low level adventurers&quot;.&nbsp; The population density is much lower.&nbsp; Each individual makes personal deals with magical patrons (primal spirits or other less savory) to have the strength to survive in the wilderness.&quot;Road and Wall&quot; have difficulty expanding where they cannot do their rituals, which require ley lines (for roads) and ley nexus (for walled cities).&nbsp; This leaves most of the world for the &quot;Tree and Sky&quot; peoples.&nbsp; At the same time, their higher density and their magical wards make overrunning a &quot;Road and Wall&quot; civilization difficult.Conflict between then erupts along the roads, where the protective magics for the &quot;Road and Wall&quot; people are weaker.&nbsp; Short cuts that bypass built up roads requires dealing with the &quot;Tree and Sky&quot; people's.&nbsp; Expanding the road network is another source of conflict, as is building settlements on new nexus.Specific Nexus and Ley lines weakening over time is a way for the &quot;Road and Wall&quot; cities to fall into decay and ruin, as is just being overrun by the wilderness.Ocean travel becomes interesting.&nbsp; You can't build roads on the ocean.&nbsp; So the Road and Wall civilization has to use Tree and Sky like behavior for their ocean going ships -- you make deals with the spirits of the sea.I guess the alternative would be you somehow ward your ships.&nbsp; I could imagine such wards would decay fast, away from a nexus; so you'd go to a port, refresh your wards, then head out.&nbsp; And they'd decay over the journey.&nbsp; Better get to a new settlement before they are all gone!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8381824, member: 72555"] Also, the Mongols had plenty of tech. They had well bred domesticated horses, the stirrup, and composite bows. All of which are technology. They just don't involve smelting ore. In a fantasy world, trained and bred fantasy creatures can be a thing. As would be fantasy plants and monster body parts being used to construct weapons. Magic, like spells or other abilities, can be learned without having access to iron. A civilization where 1 in 3 people know a spell on the scale of "lighting bolt" would beat a pre-modern "industrial" civilization hands down. Like, imagine a civilization where the average citizen is a T1 druid or ranger. Put them up against a civilization that can mass produce chainmail, polearms and crossbows, and the average soldier was a "guard" from the monster manual. I think the druid/rangers would win, no "less than" involved. ... The "Settled" (Road and Wall) people are the typical D&D "commoners" and use rituals to build protection around their settlements. The walls and roads are reinforced with magic, their crop yield is boosted by magical fertilizer. A relatively small percentage of the population does farming thanks to the magical boost, the population is highly urban and full of crafters, etc. The "Nomad" (Tree and Sky) people are almost all "low level adventurers". The population density is much lower. Each individual makes personal deals with magical patrons (primal spirits or other less savory) to have the strength to survive in the wilderness. "Road and Wall" have difficulty expanding where they cannot do their rituals, which require ley lines (for roads) and ley nexus (for walled cities). This leaves most of the world for the "Tree and Sky" peoples. At the same time, their higher density and their magical wards make overrunning a "Road and Wall" civilization difficult. Conflict between then erupts along the roads, where the protective magics for the "Road and Wall" people are weaker. Short cuts that bypass built up roads requires dealing with the "Tree and Sky" people's. Expanding the road network is another source of conflict, as is building settlements on new nexus. Specific Nexus and Ley lines weakening over time is a way for the "Road and Wall" cities to fall into decay and ruin, as is just being overrun by the wilderness. Ocean travel becomes interesting. You can't build roads on the ocean. So the Road and Wall civilization has to use Tree and Sky like behavior for their ocean going ships -- you make deals with the spirits of the sea. I guess the alternative would be you somehow ward your ships. I could imagine such wards would decay fast, away from a nexus; so you'd go to a port, refresh your wards, then head out. And they'd decay over the journey. Better get to a new settlement before they are all gone! [/QUOTE]

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