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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Considerations when Designing a Warlord.
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6820008" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>This is important to remember. The capabilities of most 5e sub-classes include spellcasting which is both quite powerful and extremely versatile. </p><p></p><p>But, 5e has movement, range, area &c precise to the foot. It's up to the DM how carefully to track such things. A matter of style (and modules in use). </p><p></p><p>That said, abilities that grant movement or special kinds of movement can be abstracted to the intended benefit of that movement: like being able to disengage from or gain advantage against an enemy, for instance. </p><p></p><p>Well, an ability that buffs you or an ally is strictly superior. Ally-only buffs run into serious issues when you lack allies atm. </p><p></p><p>Almost as difficult as at-will multi-attacking. Which 5e has tons of. </p><p></p><p>The help action grants advantage. It's almost trivial.</p><p></p><p>Not as difficult as attack-granting.</p><p></p><p>Bounded Accuracy doesn't leave a lot of wiggle-room for large bonuses or multiple stacking bonuses. It's just a matter of keeping them small, or non-stacking, or random.</p><p></p><p>It's the parenthetical that's the problem. This is one of the big reasons that multi-attacking has always been problematic to balance. 5e's solution is not to worry about it, and Empowering the DM to enforce the level or degree of balance he's comfortable with.</p><p></p><p>Not really. Warlord fluff all but writes itself, it's so fantasy- and action- genre-appropriate. </p><p> </p><p>The warlord balanced neatly in 4e, so it can't have been that hard.</p><p></p><p>It is a challenge. The bar has been raised so high by the 5e versions of other classes that filled the 'leader' role in 4e, and in 5e are supremely versatile support-capable casters. A Warlord that's a viable alternative to the Cleric, Bard, Druid, & Paladin will have to be much more versatile & powerful than the 4e version. </p><p></p><p></p><p>It doesn't make oodles of sense for the Warlord to concentrate, per se, but RL certainly teaches us that keeping a fighting force on-mission is very challenging. Sufficiently abstract/'simple' (by 5e standards) mechanics to model that could play a similar balancing role as concentration. Not that concentration is exactly a massive balancing factor, nor that balance is a major goal/consideration of 5e design (it's more a consideration left to those DMs who care about it).</p><p></p><p> Slots are an x/rest resource, just a very plentiful, powerful, and versatile one compared to things like Rage or CS dice. Points, likewise, are plentiful x/rest like spells, just more granular and thus even more flexible. </p><p></p><p>So, really, you've got x/short rest, x/long rest, and 1/2x/long rest (HD, the slowest-to-recover resource in the standard game).</p><p></p><p>For a design that eschews doing anything unprecedented it's an obvious place to start. There's an obvious analogy between the Battlemaster's slight dabbling in a x/rest resource (CS dice, a handful of maneuvers), and the EK's dabbling in slots & spells known. Just look at how much more full casters get relative to the EK, and you'll have a rough order of magnitude idea about how much more the Warlord might need in the maneuver and resource department relative to the BM. Of course, that's assuming that the BM's CS dice at all measure up to the EK's spells, in the first place....</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6820008, member: 996"] This is important to remember. The capabilities of most 5e sub-classes include spellcasting which is both quite powerful and extremely versatile. But, 5e has movement, range, area &c precise to the foot. It's up to the DM how carefully to track such things. A matter of style (and modules in use). That said, abilities that grant movement or special kinds of movement can be abstracted to the intended benefit of that movement: like being able to disengage from or gain advantage against an enemy, for instance. Well, an ability that buffs you or an ally is strictly superior. Ally-only buffs run into serious issues when you lack allies atm. Almost as difficult as at-will multi-attacking. Which 5e has tons of. The help action grants advantage. It's almost trivial. Not as difficult as attack-granting. Bounded Accuracy doesn't leave a lot of wiggle-room for large bonuses or multiple stacking bonuses. It's just a matter of keeping them small, or non-stacking, or random. It's the parenthetical that's the problem. This is one of the big reasons that multi-attacking has always been problematic to balance. 5e's solution is not to worry about it, and Empowering the DM to enforce the level or degree of balance he's comfortable with. Not really. Warlord fluff all but writes itself, it's so fantasy- and action- genre-appropriate. The warlord balanced neatly in 4e, so it can't have been that hard. It is a challenge. The bar has been raised so high by the 5e versions of other classes that filled the 'leader' role in 4e, and in 5e are supremely versatile support-capable casters. A Warlord that's a viable alternative to the Cleric, Bard, Druid, & Paladin will have to be much more versatile & powerful than the 4e version. It doesn't make oodles of sense for the Warlord to concentrate, per se, but RL certainly teaches us that keeping a fighting force on-mission is very challenging. Sufficiently abstract/'simple' (by 5e standards) mechanics to model that could play a similar balancing role as concentration. Not that concentration is exactly a massive balancing factor, nor that balance is a major goal/consideration of 5e design (it's more a consideration left to those DMs who care about it). Slots are an x/rest resource, just a very plentiful, powerful, and versatile one compared to things like Rage or CS dice. Points, likewise, are plentiful x/rest like spells, just more granular and thus even more flexible. So, really, you've got x/short rest, x/long rest, and 1/2x/long rest (HD, the slowest-to-recover resource in the standard game). For a design that eschews doing anything unprecedented it's an obvious place to start. There's an obvious analogy between the Battlemaster's slight dabbling in a x/rest resource (CS dice, a handful of maneuvers), and the EK's dabbling in slots & spells known. Just look at how much more full casters get relative to the EK, and you'll have a rough order of magnitude idea about how much more the Warlord might need in the maneuver and resource department relative to the BM. Of course, that's assuming that the BM's CS dice at all measure up to the EK's spells, in the first place.... [/QUOTE]
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