Spelljammer Considering alternative space-faring D&D setting to Spelljammer (astronomy/physics majors welcome)

Benjamin Pass

First Post
So, here pretty recently I've wanted to run a fantasy game in outer-space. Whilst I was contemplating ways to challenge PCs in an outer-space-but-still-on-the-material-plane type adventures, I discovered that someone else had beaten me to the punch many years before. Enter Spelljammer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelljammer

Now, let it be said that I think the setting over all is well-written and pretty cool, but somehow it just seems limited and kinda two-dimensional. Also, I am not a fan of the fact that it's based on the Ptolemaic system. To me, a universe in which the structure, size and scale is more similar to our own universe would make a much better setting for adventure, especially given the fantasy settings' ability to overcome the challenges presented to us on Earth. For example, Greater Teleport can be used to overcome our major obstacle as humans, that obstacle being the ENORMOUS distances between the stars compared to the relatively slow speed of light as a cosmic speed limit. Powerful Divination magic can be used to view potential solar systems from a distance and allow for teleportation there to be possible.

I'm something of an amateur astronomer and as such have a deep admiration for nature and the universe in which we live. Combine my love of astronomy with my love of fantasy and it's sure to be a recipe for success.

How concerned do you all think I should be about "breaking the canon" of the Greyhawk setting by eliminating the Crystal spheres, Wildspace, The Phlogiston, the insane inconsistencies in the laws of physics, etc.? My Greyhawk setting is only slightly modified from the canon, but I'm considering making the outer space surrounding the Oerth drastically different from Spelljammer canon and more similar to our own universe, as previously stated. I don't mind leaving the system Geocentric though, as the unusual orbit of the celestial bodies can be explained as having been put in place by some powerful creator deity (Gary Gygax).

Now, even though the size, scale and consistency in the laws of physics may getting a revamp to be more "realistic," the very existence of gods, magic and psionics opens up possibilities for the structure of Solar Systems, Nature of Interstellar objects/artifacts, and the nature of any alien species that may be encountered while sailing among the stars. This excites me a great deal! I've even gone so far as to create a table for randomly generating solar systems and native species.

Has anyone else tried anything similar to this before? Would anyone care to offer advice or share experiences from adventures which arguably blur the line between fantasy and sci-fi?
 

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You might want to look into Dragonstar from FFG during the 3E area.
It was a more Space Opera like D&D setting which still used D&D races and monsters.

FTL travel was done by large teleport items (although travel through the Astral was also experimented wird) and a new church has been created which hypotises that all gods encountered on different worlds were made up out of several generic aspects and started to worship the aspects directly.
 

Hey I just ran my first spelljammer campaign on Saturday and did a little messing around with the original setting. These are mostly bullet points from my notes. Also, I haven't gotten to any nitty gritty details on specifics b/c it's a work in progress.

OK, I treat the whole spelljammer travel kind of like hyperspace from Babylon 5 (hope you've seen it). But here's what I do:

The material plane and Astral Plane overlap, allows for all those cool spells dealing with the Astral plane, travel/bags of holding etc. Now, there is an alternate Astral Plane called the Astral Sea which is accessed by spelljammers literally casting gate upon themselves and jumping into the Astral Sea/Material Plane. Luckily travel in the Sea is much quicker than the material plane,so you're able to go between planets/solar systems exponentially quicker.

Phlogiston still exists, it's like the "air" in the Astral Sea. It flows in 3D currents (like an ocean) and is still flammable. This allows slower spelljammers the ability to ride the currents between places and not just constantly dumping spells into your helm.

Also, similar to the Astral Plane, there are "pools" that allow travel to other planes, trick is you have to traverse "down" into the deeper parts of the Sea to access them. Deeper you go, the more dangerous it can be. Think bigger, badder, fish the deeper you go into the ocean. This allows our pc's to travel to all the cool worlds and not worry about big space dragons super early. But if they need to access a plane of existence that has a known chartable location they can go that.

So once you're in the sea, the helm of your ship detects gravity wells on the other side and won't allow you to jump into a star/planet. Same on the other side, you have to be in orbit of a planetoid to activate the helm. Also, since the astral sea has current and the material plane is in constant motion (think orbiting solar systems, galaxies) constant updated charts are required.

Since the helm can detect gravity wells, this allows exploration of uncharted solar systems because the helm will indicate a gravity well on the other side that the PC's can compare to charts and go "hey this wasn't here before/hasn't been discovered).

I treated the air bubbles around ships similar to the original.
 

Overall, you might be better served using Stargate style portals for a non-Spelljammer type interplanetary fantasy setting than just about anything else.

But if you want to include things like travel to asteroids- especially in & around belts of them- exploring planetary ring systems, and good old ship-to-ship combat, you have to answer all the questions Spelljammer did...
 

One thing you can certianly do in a universe where magic exists is simply say that c is not a hard limit. You can reach and exceed the speed of light simply by accelerating. In a fantasy universe, Einstein's wrong!
 

My preferred D&D setting would be something along the lines of Disney's Treasure Planet, probably my favorite Disney movie. Just throw the "outer space vacuum" nonsense out, and just have a lot of fun being awesome in space on ships sailing through the vast ocean that is the Universe.

Now, if I were any good at making adventures, I'd already have done it myself, but I suck at them, as hard as I try...
 

Some scifi writers talk about hollowing out asteroids and using them as space ships & habitats. In a fantasy setting, those could be CREATED via elemental & elemental planar magic.

The stony shell is created & would be maintained via material from the plane of earth. The atmosphere and maneuvering jets use elemental air. Liquid water from ever flowing flasks. Heat from small, distributed elemental fire portals. Etc.
 

When I first approached the idea of how to travel in deep space using only the resources available to characters in my D&D realm, I thought about how to accomplish it easily rather than efficiently. The first major obstacle which presents itself to space-travel is the lack of stable atmosphere and drastic increase in radiation levels which occur in interstellar space. The obvious solution is an air-tight pressurized hull which can contain something similar to conditions normally experienced by creatures in their native environments. This can be replicated with the use of a Planar Bubble spell. The hull itself presented challenges as well and I thought of all suitable materials one could build an air-tight and incredibly resilient hull from, what better to use than pure magical force? Magical force is literally invulnerable to any amount of physical damage. Your ship crashes into an asteroid/planetoid/comet at orbital speeds whose best expression is in multiples of the speed of sound through air? No problems with an impregnable hull.

The biggest problem with traveling deep space to us mere humans is that we cannot find a fuel which is efficient enough to get us even to the nearest stars. In D&D this problem is easily overcome in a myriad of ways; portals to energetic planes, magical spells or psionic powers of permanent duration, the will of divine beings, pacts with demons in exchange for soul energy, etc. Let us assume that the crew has a limitless supply of energy to propel a given craft at even a slight acceleration. In the resistance free environment of space you don't need much energy output to gain great speeds over time.

Take it up a step and if you have sufficient magical or psionic energy you could simply use Scrying and Teleport spells and powers to scope out a given stellar neighborhood from afar before teleporting there instantaneously. One small problem with this idea when you're dealing with horizons like our own universe where you can look in any direction and see stars, star clusters and galaxies as far as the eye can see, the objects you're looking at may be insanely large distances away. A single bright dot of light in the night sky could be a cluster of billions of stars millions of light-years away, whereas another mote of light which appears to be right next to the aforementioned galaxy, but is in reality only a few light-years away and is comprised of a single large star and it's two dwarf companion stars.

I'm going to assume that like our own universe that Galaxies are formed mostly in spiral shapes and that elliptical galaxies are the minorities, most likely resulting from collisions between large spiral arm or disc-shaped galaxies. I'm also going to assume that the world of Greyhawk is situated in just such a galaxy with somewhere around the cosmic average of about 100 billion stars and some 50 billion planets. When you step outside your Solar neighborhood you would see objects which are only a few dozen to a few thousand light-years away relative to the plane of your home galaxy and when you looked perpendicular to the plane of your home galaxy, most of the objects you would see would be distant galaxies millions or billions of light-years away.

The solutions that I have devised in-game are dependent upon two lesser deities acting as a part of the ships' crew, between the two of them they can provide the ship with endless spells and psionic powers. I suppose you could still accomplish the same thing with magical or psionic items which can produce at will the appropriate spell or psionic power, or a crew of living or undead psions or wizards or whatever, but then you'd be limited to only a certain number of spells per day. Items could also have similar restrictions, depending on their level of power.

Just my thoughts on the matter so far.

I guess it's also worth mentioning that the PCs I'm running in this adventure are all ECL 67 Demigods themselves, and they all have significant resources of their own, to say the least.
 

Overcoming the logistical issues of the nature of the cosmos itself and how to transport an adventuring party across it's realms was really just the first step to making a successful adventure. As a DM in a setting like this it's up to me to create new and fascinating worlds for my players to explore (let alone the mechanical challenges presented by trying to challenge ECL 67 characters, but never you mind that, that's my problem) and adventure on.

Now, I would very much like to have a multitude of planets and worlds (moons, asteroids, comets, exceptionally cool red dwarf stars inhabited by heat resilient beings, etc.) to explore and one of the methods I have devised for generating worlds quickly as a sort of pallet to be colored in with a little creativity is to outline a set of variables and assign a d% chart to each variable.

Here's what I've come up with so far or what I've seen as important variables into what makes a solar system tick:

Disclaimer: This system is still very much still in it's beta phase. I'd very much like to improve upon it. As of now I don't even use the d% as a chart, I just use a random dice with the appropriate number of sides corresponding to the number of the potential variables I have thus far outlined.

Stars. How many stars comprise the primary bodies in a given system? Is it a bianary system? Is the primary star a dwarf star or a giant star? Giant stars sometimes have solar winds so powerful that terrestrial planets like our own Earth would have their atmosphere blasted away by the torrent of charged particles their host star puts out. Furthermore, giant stars can burn through their hydrogen fuel in just a few million years before they start fusing heavier elements and shortly thereafter (relative to the rest of their lifespans) blow up in catastrophic supernovae annihilating their resident planets or other celestial bodies in the vicinity and showering other solar systems within a few lightyears with potentially lethal amounts of radiation. Given this and barring the intervention of some deity or unusual magical phenomenon, it seems unlikely that giant stars would harbor life and so if I were to make a percentile chart to calculate the nature of a randomly generated star system, it could be assumed that dwarf stars like our sun would be the most likely candidates for systems hospitable to life. Furthermore, it also seems unlikely that binary star systems would have planets with stable enough orbits and, by extension, climates to be hospitable to life. Then again, life in the D&D universe could have supernatural traits which could protect them from extremes in environments that would be lethal to life on Earth. At the moment, my prototype system simply suggests rolling 1d3 to determine the number of stars. The size and nature of the stars in question is one of those thing the DM just has to make up.

Planets. We can safely assume that the majority of life on the Universe, even in a fantasy setting would live on planets, rather than live on asteroids, comets, moons or other bizarre objects. Of course there could always be the odd exception to this rule, but I think it's safe to assume that life in a given fantasy universe would still likely inhabit mostly relatively small terrestrial planets which orbit at just the right distance from their host stars to be hospitable to life. Potential home-worlds for life in my prototype of a system include;
1. Moons (which have a biology modifier of -2, decreasing the likelihood that they will harbor life)
2. Mega Moons. Large moons big enough to support their own atmospheres or other means of protecting potential living creatures from the harsh environments of outer space (Jupiter's' Europa springs to mind) as well as an at least somewhat abundant energy source (proximity to a star or other luminous object, geothermal energy, etc.) are potential candidates as well for alien civilizations, but are still not quite as ideal as planets. They have a bio modifier of -1, only slightly decreasing the odds that they will harbor life.
3. Planet. Presumably Earth-like planet abundant enough in energy and resources to support life. Bio mod of 0.
4. Large terrestrial planet. Presumably Earth-like and over-abundant in resources, energy and particularly hospitable and protective to living things. Bio mod of +1
5. Gas giants. Certain kinds of life found in a fantasy setting could perhaps thrive in the upper reaches of a gas giants atmosphere; the planets magnetosphere protecting living things from solar winds and other cosmic events, and yet far enough away from the super-crushing pressures near the planets metallic hydrogen core. Dragons, Abberations, Fey or even vast and strange gas-filled and buoyant animals or plants could potentially thrive in such an environment. Gas giants could have a bio mod of either +1 or -1, depending on the type of life you want to dwell there.
6. Other. The universe (and even more-so a universe in a fantasy setting) is filled with bizarre and fascinating objects. Brown dwarf stars (which are really just enormous gas giants not quite hot enough at the core to fuse hydrogen), neutron stars (not sure how anything could live under such immense gravity, but hey with the existence of magic in the mix anything is possible), rogue planets with no host star, clusters of asteroids or planets shattered by cosmic impacts. With this one the sky and your imagination are the limit. However, I feel as though this one should be an extremely rare option. With my prototype of a system I just roll a d6 to determine which planetary classification a potential world should fall into and that just seems extremely unbalanced.

Humanoids. The presence or absence of humanoid creatures seems to play a significant role in the evolution of a world. We humans on Earth have done a fantastic job of screwing with the environment in a short span of 200 years or so and we don't even have magic (or if we do, it doesn't much resemble the way magic works in D&D). Also, we have here what is similar to a role-playing equivalent of the anthropic principle. We as humans tend to want to role-play as characters we can relate to. Creatures with big brains relative to body size, opposable thumbs, the capacity for magic or psionics, and characters we can pour a little bit of ourselves into when we create them. In my current system I just roll any dice and if it's odd or even determines the presence or absence of humanoids before I move onto the next variable class. The absence of humanoids imposes a sort of -1 to the potential technology level of any given civilization, assuming that the majority of other creatures in a fantasy setting lack opposable thumbs and the big brains, whereas their presence makes their technology levels improve by one stage (more on that in a minute).

Other major and minor planets in the solar system. In my current system I simply roll 1d8 for the number of major planets in a given star system (using our own solar system as a model here) and 1d3 for the number of dwarf planets.

Next we come to the technology level. I divide these into roughly 10 categories, using our own historical ages as a model.
1. Stone age
2. Bronze age
3. Iron age
4. Industrial revolution
5. Steam punk*
6. Modern*
7. Space age*
8. Interstellar*
9. Intergalactic*
10. Other

*These levels of technology could include rules from the D20 Modern rulebooks and may belong to alien worlds where magic is unknown and so the natives had to develop technology as a survival mechanism. Necessity is the mother of invention, after all.

Magic and Psionics. These two systems could be completely unknown or un-evolved on some distant worlds. Perhaps on some world one is present and the other is absent. Perhaps on some world, the practice of one or the other is forbidden, or perhaps because of the nature of the inhabitants one is simple far more prevalent than the other. I think it's fair to say that in the traditional D&D setting, magic is far more prevalent than psionics.

Gods. Do these alien worlds have their own gods? Are these gods real divine beings or simply myths and legend? If they are real, do they make their presence known and demand worship or tribute? Do they ever manifest on the material plane to prove their existence or do they rely solely upon their clerics to prove their existence? In my current model, I roll a d6 to randomly generate a pantheon for a given inhabited world.
1. No gods (outside of the far distant gods which may already exist in a given campaign setting. Or perhaps they are simply the same gods all across the material plane, regardless of how vast it may be.)
2. 1d3 Lesser deities. 2d4 Demigods.
3. 1d3 Intermediate deities. 2d4 Lesser deities. 2d6 Demigods.
4. 1d3 Greater deities. 2d4 Intermediate deities. 2d6 Lesser Deities. 3d6 Demigods
5. 2d4 Greater deities. 2d6 Intermediate Deities. 3d6 Lesser deities. 4d6 Demigods.
6. (Perhaps some deity above greater status) 2d6 Greater Deities. 3d6 Intermediate. 4d6 Lesser. 4d8 Demi.

Atmosphere. The nature of a worlds' atmosphere can greatly influence the evolution of life there. This may be determined randomly, but sometimes may not need to be. Currently I roll a d8 in the unlikely event I want to randomly generate an atmosphere.
1. None. The planet has no fluid atmosphere at all. Its' surface may be exposed to the harsh vaccum, but perhaps the planet harbors life under it's surface in spite of its' inhospitable surface.
2. Thin. The planet may have a thin atmosphere which is hospitable to life, but just barely.
3. Moderate. An atmosphere with an atmosphere similar to our Earth. Not necessarily composed of the same chemicals.
4. Thick. This planet may have a heavy, dense and ultimately crushing atmosphere. This is typical of gas giants or planets with an overabundance of certain chemicals (such as Venus' overabundance of CO2).
5. Smog. The planets' atmosphere may be polluted by the industrial activities of civilized creatures there or by some natural phenomenon.
6. Toxic. The planet may have an atmosphere which is filled with toxic chemicals and may be inhospitable to alien life attempting to visit the world. Or perhaps even to the natives and they must live in only in select parts of the planet where the air is breathable.
7. Liquid. The planet may not have an atmosphere at all composed of gaseous matter. It may be simply a liquid "atmosphere" surrounding a solid core and perhaps protected by a frozen shell. (Once again, Europa)
8. Other. Once again; your imagination is the limit on this roll. Perhaps the atmosphere is filled with magnetic metal particles that rain down from space. Perhaps it is composed of several "layers" each with a different chemical composition.

Gravity. The density and distance from the center of gravity determines the gravitational pull exerted on objects and creatures on the surface. If you want to roll for a planets gravity and let the rest fall into place using logic (or perhaps the complete lack thereof given the influence of supernatural circumstances) feel free to use this guideline.
1. Light.
2. Moderate.
3. Heavy.
4. Reversed.

Biology. For this variable, assuming you don't want to just allow this to fall into place, you can roll a d10 to quickly generate a biology for a given world.
1. Hostile. Planets with this kind of biology are only sparsely populated and ecosystems are fragile.
2. Small. Worlds with this kind of biology have just enough resources to support stable and resilient ecosystems, but may still be sparsely populated.
3. Slightly conducive. Moderately populated and fairly resilient ecosystems with a wide variety of living things, all well adapted to their environments.
4. Moderate. A biosphere comparable to the diverse and resilient Earth in our own universe. Wide variety of living things, all well adapted and most taking efficient advantage of their available resources.
5. Extreme. An extremely diverse biosphere filled with exceptionally resilient and adaptable organisms all taking extremely efficient advantage of their available resources.
6. Artificially enhanced evolution. A biosphere in which the genome of of the natives has been modified by a technologically advanced and possibly alien race.
7. Magically enhanced evolution. Biospheres of this nature have magic flowing in their veins. This could be a world populated by magical creatures where you either evolve magical defenses or you go extinct.
8. Psionically enhanced evolution. Biospheres of this nature are on the other end of the magic vs. psionic spectrum and have to have innate psi-like abilities or even levels in a psionic class to survive in their native environments.
9. Divinely enhanced evolution. A biosphere of this nature has quintessence abound. Creatures may begin their life cycles as mortal beings and divine ascension may simply be their version of metamorphosis, like the caterpillar into the butterfly. Other gods have brought the knowledge and means of apotheosis like mana from heaven to share with the inhabitants of this world. The gods worshiped on worlds like these may be vastly powerful cosmic beings far beyond the capabilities of even greater deities.
10. Other. Use your imagination. A combination the above possibilities. Something beyond my feeble creative talents that you lovely folks (and truly you are a lovely person if you've taken the time to read all this and tolerate my incessant use of parenthesis) create with sheer genius.

Economics. Every civilized race likely has some kind trade system. I have only found a few possible economies which function well. Roll 1d4 if you wanna randomize it.
1. None. This race lives an anti-materialistic or ascetic lifestyle, or due to their evolution simply have no need to external tools or resources due to their own innate abilities.
2. Resource trade. Basically bartering, but lacking a stable currency to stimulate a proper economy.
3. Monetary trade. Monetary trade with stable currency, likely restricted and moderated by the existence of some government like entity.
4. Free trade. Currency based and totally voluntary non-coercive system of free trade, not restricted or regulated by the use of force.

I really hope that someone has something to add to this, or at least some critique of the prototype for the system I have devised here. Maybe even a few suggestions on how to curve the probabilities of given variables presented above. Thanks in advance for your potential future help and thanks even more for reading this massive wall of text.
 

Here's a thought (borrowing liberally from Larry Niven's Integral Trees setting):

While it may not be possible in the real world, why not try setting your campaign within a nebula* that has misty, foggy, colorful but breathable atmosphere? Use smallish worlds (asteroid to earth-sized), levitating wind-powered ships, free-floating ecosystems centered around water balls and trees like Niven's, and so forth.







* or a gas-filled Dyson sphere or a super huge gas giant
 

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