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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kaelkatar" data-source="post: 5303525" data-attributes="member: 72719">I don't know if you read the post I did on some of the basic mathematical differences between 18-13-13-10-10-8 and 16-16-12-12-10-8, but I think the general thought that you are gimping your character in many other ways is a fallacy. I'll admit levels 1-3 are slightly weaker due to starting your secondary and tertiary as odd numbers.If done right, you have the same total + to Ref,Fort,Will at all levels. Even scenarios where your Primary and Secondary, or your Secondary and Tertiary have the same associated defense, starting 18 and 16 are within one of each other, sometimes the with 18 actually come out ahead with total +1 saves. INT/DEX characters are undeniably harder to hit with an 18 build. Con as a 4th stat only increases by 2 HP and 1 surge/day between the builds, the only scenario where you reap more than that is when Con is your secondary stat, and even then it is only 6 HP and 3 surges. Skills tend to favor the 16 build, but in certain cases (Such as a INT, STR, CON swordmage) where you end up with more total + to skills going with the 18 build.The reduction to secondary effect can vary from powerful to useless depending on class. I'll admit for some classes, particularly leaders who give large bonuses like (-Secondary Attribute to attack rolls on hit), having that extra 15% reduction is key, but in many cases such as (Slide the taget 2+Secondary Attribute on hit) it really doesn't matter all that much.I think the best way to balance it more in favor of Less 18s and more balanced attributes is to make more feats that have ability score requirements. Other than the occasional Armor Specialization or those wacky +1 to two elemental damage types feats, I never feel like I'm missing out on anything featwise by pulling a 18.Put short though a correctly done 18 primary build is in many cases just as strong, or only slightly less strong in non hit and damage areas, and much better in hit and damage areas.</blockquote>

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