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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4462796" data-attributes="member: 43019">Oops, copy-paste didn't actually get all the rules - it missed the first one I did and I didn't realize.So... 7) 'Penalties for failed saves only trigger on saving throws made at the end of your turn. For purposes of &quot;Failed Save&quot; &quot;First Failed Save&quot; &quot;Second Failed Save&quot; or any similar mechanic, extra saves (such as from an item or power) are ignored completely.'&nbsp; &nbsp; Example: A beholder hits Regdar with its petrifying ray. Jozan uses his sacred flame ability to give Regdar a saving throw, which Regdar fails. At the end of his turn, Regdar again fails his saving throw, which means that he triggers the &quot;First Failed Save&quot; penalty of becoming immobilized.&nbsp; &nbsp; Why: Abilities which give extra saves can be penalties, such as hobgoblins falling asleep immediately or sacred flame getting Regdar petrified. This is non-intuitive and a potential trap for DMs and players.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="keterys, post: 4462796, member: 43019"] Oops, copy-paste didn't actually get all the rules - it missed the first one I did and I didn't realize. So... 7) 'Penalties for failed saves only trigger on saving throws made at the end of your turn. For purposes of "Failed Save" "First Failed Save" "Second Failed Save" or any similar mechanic, extra saves (such as from an item or power) are ignored completely.' [FONT=Calibri] [/FONT] [FONT=Calibri]Example: A beholder hits Regdar with its petrifying ray. Jozan uses his sacred flame ability to give Regdar a saving throw, which Regdar fails. At the end of his turn, Regdar again fails his saving throw, which means that he triggers the "First Failed Save" penalty of becoming immobilized.[/FONT] [FONT=Calibri] [/FONT] [FONT=Calibri]Why: Abilities which give extra saves can be penalties, such as hobgoblins falling asleep immediately or sacred flame getting Regdar petrified. This is non-intuitive and a potential trap for DMs and players.[/FONT] [/QUOTE]

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