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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blackbird71" data-source="post: 6593727" data-attributes="member: 6794081">Bards as full casters may be a problem - I've been having enough trouble wedging them into the setting as partial casters.Yes, I greatly enjoyed 2E; although to be fair, it was rare that my experience involved much of anything beyond the core books (for quite a while it was just the PHB and DMG; not even a Monstrous Manual/Compendium).  I attribute much of my lack of dislike for the edition to this, as it seems like a lot of the problems with 2E arose from the mass of additional material tacked on over the years.  I've honestly considered going back to 2E for my planned campaign; it's been a few years, but it's familiar enough that I feel I have a good idea on how to make it work.Also, unless you are counting Pathfinder, I never actually played 3.5 tabletop; just in computer games where a lot of the number crunching was taken care of, so I don't know how much that counts.  Still, PF has it's share of excessive math.  Personally, I don't mind the math too much; I've always been pretty good with running numbers in my head (probably also why I never had an issue with Thac0).  But I have seen it affect others at the table, and I recognize that it can significantly slow a game.At least in 2E, rangers gained casting at a high enough level that in most of our games, it rarely came into play, and the class may as well have been non-magical for all intents and purposes (as I recall, in those early years the highest any of our games ever got was ~level 12-13, and there were no rangers in that particular party). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Again, there have been a lot of wonderfully helpful responses, and I have to thank everyone for their opinions and information.  I do have to say that you've convinced me to try out 5th.  I'm not exactly anxious to buy up the books right away, but I may see what I can do with the PDFs, or maybe pick up the starter kit (~$12 on Amazon right now; hard to say no to that price).  I still have some concerns, but we'll see what happens.</blockquote>

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