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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blackbird71" data-source="post: 6599982" data-attributes="member: 6794081">I was thinking about this, and as I recall the roll-under mechanic was at least partially balanced by the fact that AD&D characters on the whole typically had lower ability scores - especially if you used the recommended 3D6 generation method.  Average scores were in the 10-12 range, and it was not uncommon for a character to have two or even three stats below 10, and even characters without a single score higher than 14 weren't exactly a rarity.  My how far we've come!  Nowadays it seems that the general opinion of the modern player is if you don't have at least one score at 18, the character is somehow gimped.I do appreciate that 5E rules that if using a point buy, the highest stat you can get is a 15.  It does seem to be a bit of an effort to return to a lower curve, and to make godly stats more of a rarity.The AD&D system may have been convoluted at the start, but not having any sort of regular stat increases usually meant that you looked up what bonuses and/or penalties you got at character creation, noted them on your sheet, and then you were good to go as you rarely ever had to change it.  I'll take a little complication at the outset if the tradeoff is that every ability score has value and meaning.  Unfortunately for me, WotC disagrees, so I guess I'll just have to live with it (but I don't have to like it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />).Part of what I intend to do by using AD&D style multiclassing is to limit exactly what class combinations are allowed.  This was a part of the old system, and I believe it is important to maintaining some level of balance and control against potentially broken combinations.  I will agree that the 5E system does offer some intriguing possibilities for "pseudo-multiclassing", and I'll have to explore this further.    It's a thought; I'll consider it.Heh, that one did cross my mind - looking at that list, I started having flashbacks to Saturday mornings as a kid and the old D&D cartoon.All the discussion about old systems got me thinking, and I remembered another feature of 2E I liked - limited HP progression at higher levels.  Once you hit level 9 or 10 (depending on class) you no longer got another hit die per level, but instead a flat increase in HP by class (as I recall, ranging from +1 point/level for Wizard up to +3 for Fighter), and no more CON bonuses .  This provided a bit of a slowdown to the power curve which helped reign in the higher levels.  I'm guessing that something like this probably wouldn't work too well if applied to 5E?Last night I had some time to do a little more reading of the core books, and I dug a bit more into the magic system and caster classes.  It was an interesting read that raised a lot of possibilities and questions.A problem with casters has always been that they start out barely being able to do anything, but then at high levels can dominate a system.  No one wants to play the level 1 wizard with only one spell per day, but the payoff is that after a point, that wizard's power is far above that of his non-magical compatriots.  This may be thematically appropriate, but can be problematic from a gameplay perspective.5E seems to have addressed the first part of this by dramatically increasing the number spells per day available to low level casters.  Part of me instinctively wants to get away from this simply because it seems so radically different from what I've been used to (my mental dialogue was something along the lines of "a wizard with six spells plus cantrips at level three? That's so overpowered...").  But the more rational part of me recognizes that this may actually be a good thing, and I'll have to see how it works in practice.What I am concerned of is how does this early acceleration work out once the players reach higher levels?  Are high level 5E wizards any more powerful than their previous counterparts when compared to other classes?  Less powerful?  About the same?  Has 5E done anything to correct the "quadratic wizard" problem, or has it worsened it?  A rare but powerful caster could be fitting for my planned campaign, but at the same time, if there is a player caster I don't want the rest of the party to feel too overshadowed.  I understand a lot of this will hinge not only on how many spells a wizard can cast, but also the spells available.  Can anyone here who has had some experience with high level 5E wizards comment?I also found it interesting that for wizard schools, the "extra spell" of past editions was dropped in favor of specific abilities.  This does seem to streamline a bit of the bookkeeping of old specialist wizards ("which spell was in my extra school slot?"), and the extra slot mechanic seems a bit unnecessary given the number of spells available under 5E, so it seems a good way to add a bit of flavor to each of the schools.  I'm not sure how I like the lack of any penalties for opposed schools, as there was supposed to be a tradeoff for being a specialist.  I suppose though that it has to do with the fact that as far as I can tell there is no "generalist" wizard in 5E.  I'm not exactly sure how I feel about that, and I may try to house rule a generalist subclass, especially if I decide to impose the 2E multiclassing restriction that a multiclass wizard cannot be a specialist.  Does anyone know any good homebrew generalist rules out there?I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I do like the idea of rituals; it's something that I felt casters always needed - the ability to cast a spell from recorded procedure rather than memory when time permitted.  I do think that the flat 10-minute requirement is a bit lazy; I feel that more powerful spells are more complex, and therefore ritual casting time should reflect the spell's level.  Would 10 minutes/level be too severe?  An hour and half for a ninth level spell seems a bit on the long side, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.  I seem to recall in older editions the preparation of a spell requiring a significant amount of time based on level, and I suppose I'm looking to do something similar here.  Any thoughts or suggestions?This thread has certainly delved far deeper into my ideas, plans, and concerns than I had ever intended or imagined.  For those who have followed me this far down the rabbit hole, thank you; your insight has been invaluable and is much appreciated.  It is always helpful to be able to bounce ideas around and get experienced feedback.  if it helps, I'm definitely feeling better about trying to use 5th edition for my purposes than when I started; at this point I think it's just a matter of hammering out the details.  Please don't feel obligated to stick around as I pound away, but anyone who wants to continue the discussion is certainly more than welcome!</blockquote>

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