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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3265902" data-attributes="member: 4937">Redundant?  Spellcraft has a very clear province.  Knowledge (Arcana) can't be used for anything for which you can use a spellcraft check.  You don't know anything about the practice of casting spells if you only have Knowledge (Arcana), but on the other hand you might now alot about how to cast a spell without understanding why it works.  The two are as distinct of skills as Computer Programmer, Theoretical Phycist, Civil Engineer, and Electrician.  Theory vs. practice.Knowledge (Arcana) is one of my favorite skill checks to ask for as DM because it deals with the how, why, and what of just about anything supernatural.  It is the catch all skill for recognizing and knowing about supernatural creatures or powers, knowing the effects of curses and how they can be broken, knowing how magic works and what places or times might be particularly conducive to one ritual or another, lost lore and secret knowledge, the functioning of truenames and numbers of power, numerology, astrology, and the other means by which divinitions can be attempted, and so forth.  In other words, just about any time I need to introduce some plot device, I can call for Knowledge (Arcana) and have a player feel useful for revealing some arcano-babble or another meant to keep the plot moving.   I find that keeping skills narrow increases the value of having lots of skill points, and I find that that is a good thing.You are right that Craft and Profession have a problem, but I think that you are wrong that the problem is that they are redundant.  The problem is that they - and especially profession - are so poorly defined by the rules.  Long before they made 'Complete Class XLI', I would have liked to see them have devoted an entire book to the Profession skill.  1) What does each profession skill let you do besides help NPC's make money?  2) Are some professions more or less profitable than others (do you make more money as a lawyer or physician than a beggar)?  How does that work?3) When you have profession (sailor), what advantages if any does that give you when using (for example) the balance skill, climb skill, use rope skill, or wilderness lore skill?  If it doesn't help you do any of these things, what does it do?  Is it for example possible to have a great deal of ranks in Profession (sailor) and yet be a very poor sailor because you can't do anything that a sailor is expected to do?4) Ought not there to be feats available only to those with certain ranks in various professions, allowing them to perform extraordinary acts within those professions just as for example warriors have feats that allow them to perform extraordinary martial acts?I imagine many players would think such a book boring, but many players overlook that there are a great many skillful things an adventure might be called on to do that are ONLY doable with ranks in a certain profession.  One of the most common is Profession (Boater).  No other skill substitutes.  If your called upon to handle a canoe, rowboat, or raft only Profession (Boater) can help you navigate over treacherous waters.  Arguably, this one skill alone is as important as Ride, and that's one of what is literally scores of possibly useful professions.  I'd certainly get more use out of such a book than anything WotC has printed in the last two or three years.No we don't.  As far as I know, Profession (Bowyer) doesn't exist.  Profession handles work which doesn't produce durable goods.  If there is a physical product, there should not be a Profession skill.  The production of goods is handled by the Craft skill.  There are a few exceptions, and these might be an errors, such as Profession (Cook).  You can make a good arguement that Profession (Cook) should be replaced by Craft (Cuisine) or some such, but I don't care that much either way. I agree that this is problem.  I think that every class ought to get Profession.  There is no particular reason why Ride should be a fighter class skill, and Profession (Boater) should not.I think more people would take profession skills if they had some idea what they were getting, but since the DM's have no idea what profession skills do either, they tend to err on the conservative side and not let them do much of anything.   Hense, no player has a reason to take them.</blockquote>

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