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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6879885" data-attributes="member: 4937">Interesting.&nbsp; I would have never thought to put those characters together, and none of the three characters fits the sort of character I was envisioning when you made your first post.Merlin I would consider a sorcerer or possibly a druid, or both.&nbsp; Gygax had him as a multi-classed M-U/Druid.&nbsp; Merlin is an archetypal wizard, but the old version of Merlin is definitely more of a sorcerer in D&amp;D terms than a wizard, as the origin of his powers is his unusual parentage and bloodline.&nbsp;&nbsp; It's hard to know what to make of the charm of making.&nbsp; I'd place it as a powerful unique ritual in D&amp;D terms.&nbsp; It's certainly not a spell in the normal sense, unless in D&amp;D terms it is the language you use to cast 'Wish'.&nbsp; But ok, I can kind of see where you are going there in that unlike GURPS the default D&amp;D spellcaster is not explicitly powered by stamina/fatigue.&nbsp; So presumably we could have a class that traded HD for spells, perhaps losing the Wizards arcane refresh ability?&nbsp; (But then again, is 'take a short rest and get back spells' not this same idea?)&nbsp; But, if this class is going to be full caster sufficient to capture the idea of Merlin, then what are we to make of the rest?For the Dunedain, I would have thought there class was obvious.&nbsp; They are all obviously 1e cavaliers.&nbsp; We encounter them as armored knights on horseback, and they are referred to as knights.&nbsp; They are all nobility -&nbsp; the class can only be taken by those who have some royal blood in them.&nbsp; They never fight with ranged weapons.&nbsp; They have a code of honor and they are defenders of civilization from the wild lands around them.&nbsp; What else could they be? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp; I jest slightly, because the D&amp;D ranger class was supposed to be inspired by the Tolkien Ranger, but its actually only inspired very loosely by 'Strider' - the assumed guise of Aragorn that we first meet him in when the hobbits are introduced to him.&nbsp; He actually spends very little of the book acting like Strider, and rather more of it wearing a mail habergeon, riding on horseback, and acting like a king.&nbsp;&nbsp; And he spent a considerable portion of his life as a &quot;black knight&quot; in the courts of Rohan and Gondor, where we would have never thought of him as a D&amp;D ranger at all.&nbsp; Aragorn is very much more than a D&amp;D ranger, and what the D&amp;D ranger has become through the alchemy of other RPG systems and video games is very much not Aragorn or any other ranger.Still, while Aragorn is the &quot;hardiest of all mortal men&quot;, and capable of epic feats of endurance, he doesn't actually seem to be defined or powered by stamina, and there is even less evidence in the case of other rangers.&nbsp; Faramir acts very much like a cavalier.&nbsp; The rangers seem mostly defined by a combination of royal bloodline and prowess of arms - not things we associate with Constitution.&nbsp; And it's very unclear how we'd create one class for both Merlin and Aragorn.Also, if it isn't clear, Aragorn's &quot;the hands of the King are the hands of a healer&quot; has the exact same mythic origin as a Paladin's &quot;lay on hands&quot; ability and ability to cure diseases.&nbsp; Both the creator of the D&amp;D paladin and Tolkien are channeling the medieval myth that the true King that God had ordained could be known by the fact that his touch could heal.&nbsp; Aragorn isn't merely a Cavalier.&nbsp; As the True King, he's also a Paladin.&nbsp;&nbsp; As for Green Branch, he seems fit the general motif of Giant Killer that appears in fairy tales.&nbsp; The idea that you recount of neither side being able to defeat the other until one side becomes fatigued isn't one I've seen before, but is pretty cool.&nbsp; In D&amp;D terms, &quot;Green Branch&quot; appears to be a sorcerer of some sort, given his magical heritage and his apparent ability to cast spells (&quot;Control plant?&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Control winds?&quot;).&nbsp; This would make him more like your earlier Merlin example, except that Green Branch is also a mighty warrior that beats up dragons with his bare hands.&nbsp; (But maybe he knows spells like &quot;Body Weaponry&quot;, &quot;Bull's Strength&quot;, and &quot;Stoneskin&quot;?&nbsp; Maybe he is multiclassed?)&nbsp;&nbsp; But this brings us a long way from your original post &quot;a possible new 'fighter' or 'non caster' class&quot;.&nbsp; Two of your examples are spellcasters, one of which - Merlin - is iconicly so.&nbsp;&nbsp; And none of your examples seems to me defined by the proposed class's defining mechanic, nor do any of the three characters use their expenditure of stamina (if that is what they are doing) to power the same sort of skills.&nbsp; That suggests to me a link between these characters that is at best at the level of a Feat allowing you to spend HD in some fashion (each has a different class, but the same Feat), or just that they all share in common that they have Constitution score use a system wide fatigue mechanics.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6879885, member: 4937"] Interesting. I would have never thought to put those characters together, and none of the three characters fits the sort of character I was envisioning when you made your first post. Merlin I would consider a sorcerer or possibly a druid, or both. Gygax had him as a multi-classed M-U/Druid. Merlin is an archetypal wizard, but the old version of Merlin is definitely more of a sorcerer in D&D terms than a wizard, as the origin of his powers is his unusual parentage and bloodline. It's hard to know what to make of the charm of making. I'd place it as a powerful unique ritual in D&D terms. It's certainly not a spell in the normal sense, unless in D&D terms it is the language you use to cast 'Wish'. But ok, I can kind of see where you are going there in that unlike GURPS the default D&D spellcaster is not explicitly powered by stamina/fatigue. So presumably we could have a class that traded HD for spells, perhaps losing the Wizards arcane refresh ability? (But then again, is 'take a short rest and get back spells' not this same idea?) But, if this class is going to be full caster sufficient to capture the idea of Merlin, then what are we to make of the rest? For the Dunedain, I would have thought there class was obvious. They are all obviously 1e cavaliers. We encounter them as armored knights on horseback, and they are referred to as knights. They are all nobility - the class can only be taken by those who have some royal blood in them. They never fight with ranged weapons. They have a code of honor and they are defenders of civilization from the wild lands around them. What else could they be? ;) I jest slightly, because the D&D ranger class was supposed to be inspired by the Tolkien Ranger, but its actually only inspired very loosely by 'Strider' - the assumed guise of Aragorn that we first meet him in when the hobbits are introduced to him. He actually spends very little of the book acting like Strider, and rather more of it wearing a mail habergeon, riding on horseback, and acting like a king. And he spent a considerable portion of his life as a "black knight" in the courts of Rohan and Gondor, where we would have never thought of him as a D&D ranger at all. Aragorn is very much more than a D&D ranger, and what the D&D ranger has become through the alchemy of other RPG systems and video games is very much not Aragorn or any other ranger. Still, while Aragorn is the "hardiest of all mortal men", and capable of epic feats of endurance, he doesn't actually seem to be defined or powered by stamina, and there is even less evidence in the case of other rangers. Faramir acts very much like a cavalier. The rangers seem mostly defined by a combination of royal bloodline and prowess of arms - not things we associate with Constitution. And it's very unclear how we'd create one class for both Merlin and Aragorn. Also, if it isn't clear, Aragorn's "the hands of the King are the hands of a healer" has the exact same mythic origin as a Paladin's "lay on hands" ability and ability to cure diseases. Both the creator of the D&D paladin and Tolkien are channeling the medieval myth that the true King that God had ordained could be known by the fact that his touch could heal. Aragorn isn't merely a Cavalier. As the True King, he's also a Paladin. As for Green Branch, he seems fit the general motif of Giant Killer that appears in fairy tales. The idea that you recount of neither side being able to defeat the other until one side becomes fatigued isn't one I've seen before, but is pretty cool. In D&D terms, "Green Branch" appears to be a sorcerer of some sort, given his magical heritage and his apparent ability to cast spells ("Control plant?" "Control winds?"). This would make him more like your earlier Merlin example, except that Green Branch is also a mighty warrior that beats up dragons with his bare hands. (But maybe he knows spells like "Body Weaponry", "Bull's Strength", and "Stoneskin"? Maybe he is multiclassed?) But this brings us a long way from your original post "a possible new 'fighter' or 'non caster' class". Two of your examples are spellcasters, one of which - Merlin - is iconicly so. And none of your examples seems to me defined by the proposed class's defining mechanic, nor do any of the three characters use their expenditure of stamina (if that is what they are doing) to power the same sort of skills. That suggests to me a link between these characters that is at best at the level of a Feat allowing you to spend HD in some fashion (each has a different class, but the same Feat), or just that they all share in common that they have Constitution score use a system wide fatigue mechanics. [/QUOTE]

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