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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Matthias" data-source="post: 5941808" data-attributes="member: 3625">I like the concept of Archetypes as an alternative to the proliferation of base classes. However, as a GM, I am not sure how I should handle the idea of building an NPC Ftr 7 / Rog 8 whose backstory has him starting out as a standard Fighter, then changing to a Fighter-Archer archetype with some Rogue levels added in for extra fun.My difficulty--why should my NPC suddenly lose his accumulated Bravery bonus in favor of Hawkeye? It would be a mistake to actualize "Fighter-Archer" as a separate class from "straight Fighter" because multiclassing denies you upper-level abilities. One could attempt to answer this by letting these "subclasses" stack for purposes of class feature access but not BAB, saves, or skill ranks. For instance, Fighter(standard) 6 / Fighter(Archer) 6 could get you:BAB +12, saves +8/+4/+4 (same as a standard Fighter 12)Bravery (+2 to Will vs. fear)Hawkeye (+2 to Perception, +10 ft to R.I.)Armor Training 1Trick Shot [1 trick shot]Weapon Training 1Expert Archer (+1)8 fighter bonus featscompared to Fighter(standard) 12:BAB +12, saves +8/+4/+4Bravery (+3)Armor Training 3Weapon Training 27 fighter bonus featscompared to Fighter(Archer) 12:BAB +12, saves +8/+4/+4Hawkeye (+3/15 ft.)Expert Archer (+2)Safe Shot7 fighter bonus featsThe "half-archetype" Fighter looks slightly better than the standard version or the Archer-Fighter, and there is added complexity.On the other hand, simply "reskinning" one's class abilities--spontaneously dropping Bravery, Weapon and Armor Training for the Archetype's alternative class features creates the oddity of gaining a progression of abilities (Hawkeye-Expert Archer-Safe Shot) that seemingly appear out of nowhere. How did the NPC get so good with a bow?Perhaps the changeover could be more gradual...I attempted to work out a process where a character would lose the highest-level class feature he had which would be replaced, for the lowest-level alternative feature from the archetype. (Upgrades to existing abilities, such as increases to Will saves from Bravery, were counted as separate class features). That method was rather messy.So here is the best method I can come up with:Still kind of messy, I guess, but it allows characters to "morph" at a pace and demeanor of their GM's/player's choosing, especially if the NPC becomes a 'fellow traveler' with the PCs and evolves into a different type of adventurer than you originally envisioned him to be (but still keeping within the bounds of the same class he started with). Of course there will be some overlap between the standard and alternative features for a few levels, perhaps bearing duplicating abilities that are not meant to coexist inside the same character; however, I would consider this natural and simply part of process of character growth and development, and in any case if there is ever a game-breaking combination of class features the GM has ultimate power to fix the problem. And certainly the GM always has the discretion to put a stop to deliberate minmaxing attempts by players if he is OK with them using "archetype polymorphing" for their own characters.</blockquote>

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