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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8352826" data-attributes="member: 57383">Updating the <a href="https://enworld.org/index.php?posts/8061974" target="_blank">Desert Giant Working Draft</a>.I'd be OK using the "average EL" of 10 for the sand-shifter's CR, maybe with the EL version as an optional rule, and just have with/without sand creature CRs in the immature statblock.i.e.:Sand-shifter Challenge Ratings includes the petrified ancestors and stony steeds summoned to their aid, a sand-shifter without its sand creatures is EL 7 like a normal CR 7 adult desert giant, while immature sand-shifters are EL 5 (Large) or EL 3 (Medium) without their sand-creatures.Optional Rule - Sand-Shifter Encounter Groups: If the sand-shifter rolled particularly well or badly on the number of summoned creatures then its Encounter Level might have a –1 or +1 adjustment to reflect the favorable or detrimental circumstances.  For example, an adult sand-shifter with six petrified ancestors instead of the average of four might be EL 11 but one with just a single ancestor and five stony steeds could be EL 9, while a child sand-shifter with nine steeds might be EL 8.I'd include that in the stat blocks, plus we need to set the Feats & Skills of the immature sand-shifters. I've set the HD so we just knock off one feat for the Adolescent and one for the Child. I'm thinking maybe Iron Will followed by Mounted Archery?Skills we should distribute fairly evenly.Like so:Large (9 HD): Hide +0* (+4 in desert, +14 with camouflage) [+1Dex –4size](+4Racial), Handle Animal +3 [+1Cha], Listen +2 [+0Wis], Ride +8 [+1Dex], Spot +8 [+0Wis], Survival +2 [+0Wis]24 Skill Points: Hide 3 SP, Handle Animal 2 SP, Listen 2 SP, Ride 7 SP, Spot 8 SP, Survival 2 SPMedium (6 HD): Hide +3* (+7 in desert, +17 with camouflage) [+1Dex](+4Racial), Handle Animal +2 [+1Cha], Listen +1 [+0Wis], Ride +7 [+1Dex], Spot +7 [+0Wis], Survival +1 [+0Wis]18 Skill Points: Hide 2 SP, Handle Animal 1 SP, Listen 1 SP, Ride 6 SP, Spot 7 SP, Survival 1 SPThat'd make itImmature sand-shifters may be Large adolescent desert giants (9 Hit Dice, Str 21, Con 17, NA +8, CR 5) or desert giant children of Medium size (6 Hit Dice, Str 17, Con 15, NA +7, CR 3). They have Charisma 13 and their other abilities are the same as an adult desert giant plus the following special ability:Junior Sand-Shifting (Sp): This ability is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell. It works like the ability of an adult sand-shifter but summons 1d8+8 stony steeds.Immature Sand-Shifter (Adolescent) (N Large Giant (Earth); Hit Dice: 9d8+21 (67 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 18 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +8 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15; Attack: Spear +10 melee (2d6+7/×3) or spear +7 ranged (2d6+5/×3) or javelin +7 ranged (1d8+5); Full Attack: Spear +10/+5 melee (2d6+7/×3) or spear +7 ranged (2d6+5/×3) or javelin +7 ranged (1d8+5); Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.; Special Attacks: Immature sand-shifting, spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +3; Abilities: Str 21, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13; Skills: Hide +0* (+4 in desert, +14 with camouflage), Handle Animal +3, Listen +2, Ride +8, Spot +8, Survival +2; Feats: Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack; CR: 9 [EL 5 without sand-creatures])Immature Sand-Shifter (Child) (N Medium Giant (Earth); Hit Dice: 6d8+12 (39 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 18 (+1 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17; Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7; Attack: Spear +7 melee (1d8+4/×3) or spear +6 ranged (1d8+3/×3) or javelin +6 ranged (1d6+3); Full Attack: Spear +7 melee (1d8+4/×3) or spear +6 ranged (1d8+3/×3) or javelin +6 ranged (1d6+3); Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.; Special Attacks: Immature sand-shifting, spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +2; Abilities: Str 17, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 13; Skills: Hide +3* (+7 in desert, +17 with camouflage), Handle Animal +2, Listen +1, Ride +7, Spot +7, Survival +1; Feats: Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack; CR: 9 [EL 3 without sand-creatures])Is it worth adding a statblock for the petrified ancestors?  We've got ones for everything else!Petrified Ancestor (N Large Outsider (Earth, Extraplanar); Hit Dice: 13d8+52 (110 hp); Init: +1; Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares); AC: 19 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +9 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 18; Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+20; Attack: Lance* +15 melee (2d6+10/×3); or hurling spear* +15 melee (2d6+7/×3); or slam +15 melee (1d4+7); or hurling spear* +10 ranged (2d6+7/×3); Full Attack: Lance* +15/+10 melee (2d6+10/×3); or hurling spear* +15/+10 melee (2d6+7/×3); or 2 slams +15 melee (1d4+7); or hurling spear* +10 ranged (2d6+7/×3); Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. (20 ft. with lance or longspear); Special Attacks: Spear throwing; Special Qualities: Desert camouflage, low-light vision; Saves: Fort +12, Ref +5, Will +6; Abilities: Str 25, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 10; Skills: Hide +2* (+6 in desert, +16 with camouflage), Handle Animal +3, Listen +3, Ride +9, Spot +10, Survival +3; Feats: Iron Will, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack; CR: 7)*A petrified ancestor has the same attack and damage values when it melees or throws a normal spear instead of a hurling spear and melees with a longspear instead of a lance.</blockquote>

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