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Converting Old 3E to New 3E standard problems
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 382764" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I wasn't really expecting an answer, but neither was I expecting a non-answer.</p><p></p><p>"Your job is to migrate the old data to the new data."</p><p></p><p>Even that is a judgement call on my part*, but that's not really the point. The point is that an entry that says 4 Orcs, is not something that NEEDS converting. A person who purchased the ESD just opens the MM and goes, "Ok, 4 Orcs." I'm suggesting that 'migrating the old data to the new data' is in itself a trivial and pointless excercise.</p><p></p><p>"Who cares if it's unbalanced?"</p><p></p><p>Would it be too much to suggest anyone using my conversion?</p><p></p><p>"Else you ruin the conversion."</p><p></p><p>HA! That's a misapplication of the English language if I ever saw one. It is one thing to suggest that I exceed my authority (as you are suggesting) when rebalancing the module, but it is entirely another thing to suggest that unbalanced conversion is not 'ruined' and a balanced one is 'ruined'.</p><p></p><p>"that is the ENTIRE point of converting the module over."</p><p></p><p>To what does 'that' refer exactly? I thought that the point of the quoted text was that there was no point of converting the module over according to the new 'guidelines'.</p><p></p><p>All I'm saying is that if it is not the place of a converter to do such minor things as adjust the HD downward of a monster that is clearly now vastly more powerful in third edition relative to the party strength, or adjust the number of monsters to make the challenge more reasonable, then they are essentially saying that it is not my place to make conversions - because such a 'conversion' results when used with together with the module in something that is an unplayable mess. I'm suggesting that the new 'guidelines' restrict me to only making conversions that are ruined (to use your phrase) and useless.</p><p></p><p>"play balance is not your job but theh DM's job."</p><p></p><p>And excuse me for thinking that if the DM who downloads my conversion really thought that play balance was solely thier job, that they wouldn't have bothered to down load the conversion - they would have done it themselves. Excuse me for thinking that maybe people download conversions because it reduces the work that they have to do, and if you HAVE actually written any conversions you would know that the work of cut and pasting data is trivial compared to the work of play balance and getting the mechanics to work in D20 somewhat like they would have worked in 1st edition.</p><p></p><p>What I'm suggesting is that it would have been nice if they had just said, 'Make sure your conversions are such that they cannot be used to play the module without owning the module.', which I don't think anyone would suggest is unfair.</p><p></p><p>And really, they have applied a double standard. It is suggesting that they have no problem with me publishing material online which uses copyrighted elements of published _settings_ (like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk) and even builds upon them and alters them and which is designed to be used in conjunction with that material. If they thought otherwise, they'd have to close down every Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk fan site out there. BUT, they are simultaneously suggesting that a fan publication which avoids copyrighted material more or less all together and only uses OGL content and perhaps a numbered key, and which is also designed to be used with another type of published product (a module) is somehow evasive and wrong.</p><p></p><p>*Applied rigorously, the idea that I'm not allowed to make judgement calls implies that I should not alter hit points to something that is more reasonable for the new stats of a given monster, or that I should not assign domains to a converted cleric, or assign additional spells to that same cleric. And before you make the arguement that what they are suggesting is that I can add new material but I can't alter existing material, I might note to you that applying new material involves rewriting a product in a way that is at least as disrepectful to the original copyright holder as altering the material, because it implies making the judgement that material should have been included in the first place.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 382764, member: 4937"] I wasn't really expecting an answer, but neither was I expecting a non-answer. "Your job is to migrate the old data to the new data." Even that is a judgement call on my part*, but that's not really the point. The point is that an entry that says 4 Orcs, is not something that NEEDS converting. A person who purchased the ESD just opens the MM and goes, "Ok, 4 Orcs." I'm suggesting that 'migrating the old data to the new data' is in itself a trivial and pointless excercise. "Who cares if it's unbalanced?" Would it be too much to suggest anyone using my conversion? "Else you ruin the conversion." HA! That's a misapplication of the English language if I ever saw one. It is one thing to suggest that I exceed my authority (as you are suggesting) when rebalancing the module, but it is entirely another thing to suggest that unbalanced conversion is not 'ruined' and a balanced one is 'ruined'. "that is the ENTIRE point of converting the module over." To what does 'that' refer exactly? I thought that the point of the quoted text was that there was no point of converting the module over according to the new 'guidelines'. All I'm saying is that if it is not the place of a converter to do such minor things as adjust the HD downward of a monster that is clearly now vastly more powerful in third edition relative to the party strength, or adjust the number of monsters to make the challenge more reasonable, then they are essentially saying that it is not my place to make conversions - because such a 'conversion' results when used with together with the module in something that is an unplayable mess. I'm suggesting that the new 'guidelines' restrict me to only making conversions that are ruined (to use your phrase) and useless. "play balance is not your job but theh DM's job." And excuse me for thinking that if the DM who downloads my conversion really thought that play balance was solely thier job, that they wouldn't have bothered to down load the conversion - they would have done it themselves. Excuse me for thinking that maybe people download conversions because it reduces the work that they have to do, and if you HAVE actually written any conversions you would know that the work of cut and pasting data is trivial compared to the work of play balance and getting the mechanics to work in D20 somewhat like they would have worked in 1st edition. What I'm suggesting is that it would have been nice if they had just said, 'Make sure your conversions are such that they cannot be used to play the module without owning the module.', which I don't think anyone would suggest is unfair. And really, they have applied a double standard. It is suggesting that they have no problem with me publishing material online which uses copyrighted elements of published _settings_ (like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk) and even builds upon them and alters them and which is designed to be used in conjunction with that material. If they thought otherwise, they'd have to close down every Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk fan site out there. BUT, they are simultaneously suggesting that a fan publication which avoids copyrighted material more or less all together and only uses OGL content and perhaps a numbered key, and which is also designed to be used with another type of published product (a module) is somehow evasive and wrong. *Applied rigorously, the idea that I'm not allowed to make judgement calls implies that I should not alter hit points to something that is more reasonable for the new stats of a given monster, or that I should not assign domains to a converted cleric, or assign additional spells to that same cleric. And before you make the arguement that what they are suggesting is that I can add new material but I can't alter existing material, I might note to you that applying new material involves rewriting a product in a way that is at least as disrepectful to the original copyright holder as altering the material, because it implies making the judgement that material should have been included in the first place. [/QUOTE]
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