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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Converting Old 3E to New 3E standard problems
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 387772" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Leopold: But the two things you describe are not the same thing. When in Dungeon they make suggestions for scaling the module to different levels, that is exactly what they are doing - scaling the module. But you cannot scale a module that does not scale to ANY level to begin with. If I add a list of conversion suggestions at the end of the module, that is not scaling the module. That is suggestions to balance the module to begin with, so that we can then scale it.</p><p></p><p>My conversion does both. The main body of the conversion (the part that flagrantly violates the notion that I'm not allowed to alter encounters to achieve among other goals game balance) is balanced for play at the character level that the original module was designed for. But also, prior to the module, I have a section which offers suggestions for scaling up or down the suggestions within the main body for parties just above or below the suggested level. This would not be possible unless the conversion was balanced to begin with.</p><p></p><p>It is easy to tell the difference. When you balance the module you make suggestions for one level of play. When you scale the module you make suggestions for several levels of play.</p><p></p><p>And in point of fact, either of them probably violates the strict interpretation of the document because you have at that point taken it on yourself to do the very thing that prompted this rant in the first place:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, I don't know if there is much point in discussing this because there is nothing I can do about it. The lawyers at WotC have spoken and who am I to fight them. But I still believe that this is a very poor double standard on what I am allowed to do with WotC's material. Noone here is argueing that I cannot for myself convert and balance the module however I like. On one hand I am a DM myself. However, that I would be forbid to share that portion of the material which is exclusively OGC (with the exception of possibily an encounter key) is ridiculous. After all, how is this WORSE than publishing my own stats for or modules featuring copyrighted or trademarked material like Drizzt, Waterdeep, The City of Greyhawk, etc. And it seems to me that it is obviously NOT as much of an infringement as converting monsters which WotC hasn't yet got around to converting - which everyone does. Ultimately, even if I'm not offering this material as 'conversion' don't I have some right to share how I chose to play the game with other DM's? Who cares if the work is 'definitive'? Is there even such a thing, since who does not rewrite published modules anyway, or who does not play them in their own unique way? The story hours that we freely collect in other forums contain far more material about the plot, characters, themes, and other indentifying aspects of the module than anything I'm proposing submitting. </p><p></p><p>Isn't it enough that I submit something that can only be used in the manner intended if the person has a copy of the module? I don't want to quote text. I don't even have to include NPC names (though they are useful tags), or the names given to areas of the encounter key (although again, those are useful tags).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 387772, member: 4937"] Leopold: But the two things you describe are not the same thing. When in Dungeon they make suggestions for scaling the module to different levels, that is exactly what they are doing - scaling the module. But you cannot scale a module that does not scale to ANY level to begin with. If I add a list of conversion suggestions at the end of the module, that is not scaling the module. That is suggestions to balance the module to begin with, so that we can then scale it. My conversion does both. The main body of the conversion (the part that flagrantly violates the notion that I'm not allowed to alter encounters to achieve among other goals game balance) is balanced for play at the character level that the original module was designed for. But also, prior to the module, I have a section which offers suggestions for scaling up or down the suggestions within the main body for parties just above or below the suggested level. This would not be possible unless the conversion was balanced to begin with. It is easy to tell the difference. When you balance the module you make suggestions for one level of play. When you scale the module you make suggestions for several levels of play. And in point of fact, either of them probably violates the strict interpretation of the document because you have at that point taken it on yourself to do the very thing that prompted this rant in the first place: Again, I don't know if there is much point in discussing this because there is nothing I can do about it. The lawyers at WotC have spoken and who am I to fight them. But I still believe that this is a very poor double standard on what I am allowed to do with WotC's material. Noone here is argueing that I cannot for myself convert and balance the module however I like. On one hand I am a DM myself. However, that I would be forbid to share that portion of the material which is exclusively OGC (with the exception of possibily an encounter key) is ridiculous. After all, how is this WORSE than publishing my own stats for or modules featuring copyrighted or trademarked material like Drizzt, Waterdeep, The City of Greyhawk, etc. And it seems to me that it is obviously NOT as much of an infringement as converting monsters which WotC hasn't yet got around to converting - which everyone does. Ultimately, even if I'm not offering this material as 'conversion' don't I have some right to share how I chose to play the game with other DM's? Who cares if the work is 'definitive'? Is there even such a thing, since who does not rewrite published modules anyway, or who does not play them in their own unique way? The story hours that we freely collect in other forums contain far more material about the plot, characters, themes, and other indentifying aspects of the module than anything I'm proposing submitting. Isn't it enough that I submit something that can only be used in the manner intended if the person has a copy of the module? I don't want to quote text. I don't even have to include NPC names (though they are useful tags), or the names given to areas of the encounter key (although again, those are useful tags). [/QUOTE]
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