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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 6204706" data-attributes="member: 57383">I hope we're not going to have the same argument for every one of these &quot;Goat Magic&quot; spells we convert!I'm OK adding Sor/Wiz to the &quot;Goat&quot; like we did Occultation. I'm thinking it ought to be at least a 3rd level Sor/Wiz spell - it's certainly more potent than a hold person.I thought we'd agreed to &quot;double up&quot; the Empowerment/Summon Coven text for the sake of easy reference.Methinks you've forgotten about the twelfth property:&quot;A bit fussy&quot; indeed, I'll have you know that's the simple version.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />+4 seems a tad high, especially as lower-level creatures will presumably have worse saving throws. I'd have been OK with +2.I'd be more accepting of a higher bonus if the paralysis was broken if the victim takes damage. Currently it's an easy way to render an opponent helpless for a coup-de-grace.You could always switch from &quot;Legacy&quot; view to &quot;Reborn&quot;. Then you wouldn't even know it's doing it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 6204706, member: 57383"] I hope we're not going to have the same argument for every one of these "Goat Magic" spells we convert! I'm OK adding Sor/Wiz to the "Goat" like we did Occultation. I'm thinking it ought to be at least a 3rd level Sor/Wiz spell - it's certainly more potent than a [I]hold person[/I]. I thought we'd agreed to "double up" the Empowerment/Summon Coven text for the sake of easy reference. Methinks you've forgotten about the twelfth property: "A bit fussy" indeed, I'll have you know that's the simple version.:p +4 seems a tad high, especially as lower-level creatures will presumably have worse saving throws. I'd have been OK with +2. I'd be more accepting of a higher bonus if the paralysis was broken if the victim takes damage. Currently it's an easy way to render an opponent helpless for a coup-de-grace. You could always switch from "Legacy" view to "Reborn". Then you wouldn't even know it's doing it. [/QUOTE]

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