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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8058617" data-attributes="member: 57383">Yes, I agree we ought to exclude the CC creatures that only have 3.0 conversions.I'll do a new Listing with only the 3.5 creatures.It's also worth considering alignment restrictions - of the summon nature's ally spells a lot of the Fey are Good and/or Chaotic, so a non-Good or non-Chaotic caprine would not be able to call upon them if it follows the usual spell rules. We should try to include at least one Neutral creature per level to make sure there's something any caprine could summon.We should also remember so include a few "Unseelie" options for the few caprine who are Evil. The Bogeyman and Bramble look like tempting lowish-level options.Also, remember we'll need to make allowances for magical abilities.  Some Fey have SLAs or supernatural powers that make them very effective allies.  Presumably that's why a grig is summon nature's ally IX with a magic fiddle but a standard fiddle-less grig doesn't even rate inclusion.We can always arbitrarily restrict their SLA use, as Pixie in summon nature's ally VI & VII having "can't cast irresistible dance" while the IX version can use that SLA.A decent rule-of-thumb is that their rank should be at least 1 higher than the level of the most powerful SLA they can use on an ally or enemy - i.e. a Fey with confusion (Sor/Wiz 4) ought to be at least Rank 5.How about including standard Grigs as a rank 1 or 2 option?  We can add them to my proposed additional "things from the SRD" list:III? - Centaur [NG]III - Owl, Giant [NG]IV? - Grig [NG; without fiddle]VIII? - Treant [NG]How many options per "spell level equivalent" are we going to want?  The summon nature's ally spells mostly have a dozen or so options per spell:Summon Nature's Ally I - Eight CreaturesDire Rat, Eagle (animal), Monkey (animal), Octopus (animal), Owl (animal), Porpoise (animal), Small Viper Snake (animal) & Wolf (animal)Summon Nature's Ally II - Thirteen CreaturesBlack Bear (animal), Crocodile (animal), Dire Badger, Dire Bat, Small Elemental (any), Hippogriff, Medium Shark (animal), Medium Viper Snake (animal), Squid (animal) & Wolverine (animal)Summon Nature's Ally III - Eleven CreaturesApe (animal), Dire Weasel, Dire Wolf, Giant Eagle [NG], Lion, Giant Owl [NG], Satyr [CN; without pipes], Large Shark (animal), Constrictor Snake (animal), Large Viper Snake (animal), ThoqquaSummon Nature's Ally IV - Nineteen CreaturesJuvenile Arrowhawk, Brown Bear (animal), Giant Crocodile (animal), Deinonychus (dinosaur), Dire Ape, Dire Boar, Dire Wolverine, Medium Elemental (any), Flamebrother Salamander [NE], Sea Cat, Huge Shark (animal), Huge Viper Snake (animal), Tiger (animal), Juvenile Tojanida, Unicorn [CG], Minor XornSummon Nature's Ally V - Sixteen CreaturesAdult Arrowhawk, Polar Bear (animal), Dire Lion, Elasmosaurus (dinosaur), Large Elemental (any), Griffon, Janni (genie), Rhinoceros (animal), Satyr [CN; with pipes], Giant Constrictor Snake (animal), Nixie (sprite), Adult Tojanida, Orca Whale (animal)Summon Nature's Ally VI - Thirteen CreaturesDire Bear, Huge Elemental (any), Elephant (animal), Girallon, Megaraptor (dinosaur), Giant Octopus (animal), Pixie (sprite) [NG; no special arrows], Average Salamander [NE], Baleen Whale, Average XornSummon Nature's Ally VII - Fourteen CreaturesElder Arrowhawk, Dire Tiger, Greater Elemental (any), Djinni (genie) [NG], Invisible Stalker, Pixie (sprite) [NG; with sleep arrows], Giant Squid (animal), Triceratops (dinosaur), Tyrannosaurus (dinosaur), Cachalot Whale (animal), Elder XornSummon Nature's Ally VIII - Four CreaturesDire Shark, Roc, Noble Salamander [NE], Elder TojanidaSummon Nature's Ally IX - Seven CreaturesElder Elemental (any), Grig (sprite) [NG; with fiddle], Pixie (sprite) [NG; with sleep and memory loss arrows], Celestial Charger Unicorn [CG]We should definitely include the Sidhe in the table since they're Neutral so can respond to any caprine's summons.  However, they have at-will invisibility which might be a bit too potent for "rank 1". Then again, I suspect I might include them just to fill out the numbers a bit.Haudhla look a good alternative.  They're Neutral and their SLAs aren't combatworthy. The defenses of DR 5/cold iron and SR 17 might be a bit problematic, but at least their AC and saves are moderate.A Feystag's magic item manipulation powers are horribly exploitable.  I'd probably leave them out entirely, but if we did include them I'd consider them a rank IX like a "Pixie with all the arrows".Flitterlings are fine.  Unless they're in a patch of 50+ flitterlings they can't use their powers.Gorse look a bit too potent to rank 1.  They have AC 25, perfect flight and empowered mirror image so they can last quite a long time before being hit, and their shortbows always include a "poison arrow" option.Hurgeons would look OK if we did'nt worry about the caprine exploiting their 1/day entangle and hallucinatory terrain power. That'd likely put them on a Rank V summons.The Oh-do-wa looks a good option for Rank 1.The Lubin has 3/day charm person which seems a bit too meaty an ability for rank 1.So in conclusion, I'm OK with the following:Rank 1 summonsJogah, Oh-do-wa [LN]Flitterling [LG]HaudhlaSidheYes, while they're both based on the same Slavic forest guardian, the way more powerful 3.5 conversion is based on a 2E creature from Dragon #239 and the 3.0 conversion is based on a 1E Dragon #119 source. The CR 13 version seems closer to the original folklore in powers - a powerful entity capable of assuming giant size - although like a lot of folklore they're subject to a lot of variation, most of the representations of them I've come across have been of the "hair-covered old man" appearance like the CR 1 version though.Anyhow, I don't think we should include the Leshy since they're bound to a forest like a Dryad is bound to a tree and the original ability couldn't summon dryads.</blockquote>

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