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Message: <blockquote data-quote="freyar" data-source="post: 7282605" data-attributes="member: 40227">I'm starting to think we need to call them "astral figments" just to keep them distinct from the type of illusion spell.Dex usually decreases with increasing size, though, so I'd rather not have it get higher.  I'd rather give them more NA or a deflection bonus if you really don't like natural armor for them.  Also, normal figments (from spells) have AC = 10 + size modifier per the SRD, which poses an interesting issue for the whole belief/reality thing.  More about that later.Anyway, how about the following abilities and NA?  I'm advancing Cha for purposes of the belief business below, so it's negotiable. I've given either pure NA or NA plus a deflection bonus = Cha bonus.  Also, Con should be - if they're really constructs, but I'm maybe leaning more now toward aberrations.Small -- Str 12, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 1, Wis 8, Cha 11; NA +0 or NA +0, +0 deflectionMedium -- Str 14, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 3, Wis 10, Cha 13; NA +4 or NA +3, +1 deflection Large -- Str 18, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 12, Cha 17; NA +10 or NA +7, +3 deflectionAs for the belief ability, the original monster requires too many rolls, as you say.  I'm also finding your proposed group save mechanic a bit complex to work for the DM, plus I think the intent of the original is that all PCs take full damage from "real" (astral) figments.  I think we might need to stray a bit more from the original mechanic but maintain the flavor.  I propose making these figments (as illusions) to start, but they have an SA to "steal reality" from a single PC.  Something like the two following abilities:Demand Credence (Su): N times per day, an astral figment can present itself in a particularly convincing manner to a single opponent.  If that opponent fails a DC X Will save, its believe gives the astral figment a real form with all the statistics given above for Y hours.  For this duration, the astral figment is not an illusion and can interact with and attack all creatures and objects normally. The save DC is Cha-based and includes a +Z racial bonus.Illusory Form (Ex): Astral figments normally take an illusory form, though they can gain a real form through their Demand Credence special attack (see above). The illusory form functions as the spell programmed image with the following exceptions. Astral figments are permanent and capable of self-directed action and intelligible speech.  The illusory form has AC equal to 10 plus the size modifier and Dex modifier (X, Y, and Z for typical Small, Medium, and Large specimens).  Successful attacks against the astral figment deal hp damage as usual, and the astral figments are destroyed when they reach zero hp.  Finally, if an opponent fails its save to disbelieve in the astral figment's illusory form, it does not take actual damage from the astral figment's attacks but behaves as if it does, including falling unconscious when it believes it has zero hp.</blockquote>

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