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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 5747799" data-attributes="member: 57383">There are several potential 50+ foot giant Pliosaur fossils, and I haven't heard that any have been clearly identified yet. What genus they are doesn't matter much for the purposes of this thread. As you say, so long as it establishes Gargantuan examples existed we should include them in our Generic Pliosaur stats.As for the 80-foot Liopleurodon, well it is a fantasy game so we might as well include a larger-than-supported-by-the-fossil-record example in the stats. It's no more a stretch than some of the size advancements WotC gave dinosaurs - such as Tyrannosaurus rex advancing to Gargantuan.So, where are you on the size/HD question?I'm starting to lean towards 10 Hit Dice for the Huge Pliosaur, because I don't want them to have fewer HD than the SRD Elasmosaurus, which should make a "more official" baseline than a Crocodile or Giant Crocodile.I guess we could tweak the HD scale a bit to fit in the 38 HD Colossal Liopleurodon, since that's also an official creature: Expanded Generic Pliosaur #1: 5-9 HD (Large); 10-20 HD (Huge); 21-41? HD (Gargantuan); 42-75? HD (Colossal) Expanded Generic Pliosaur #2: 5-8 HD (Large); 9-16 HD (Huge); 17-32 HD (Gargantuan); 33-75 HD (Colossal)     Expanded Generic Pliosaur #3: 5-9 HD (Large); 10-20 HD (Huge); 21-37 HD (Gargantuan); 38-75 HD (Colossal) Hmm, I like that #3 progression, it's a decent fit to the available data points.Also, what special abilities are we giving them - at the very least they need Keen Scent and Hold Breath.I'm also wondering whether we can shoehorn in any Special Attacks - Improved Grab to seize prey, Worry to shake prey apart, Swallow Whole for smaller opponents, Burst of Speed to catch swift prey, Powerful Charge to make its underwater ambushes more devastating?</blockquote>

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