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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5961044" data-attributes="member: 22779">Ok, how about this one.2e player sits down to a 3e table, completely cold (as in no pre-knowledge of 3e) and is given a rogue character.&nbsp; He enters a dungeon and finds a locked door.&nbsp; The DM says, &quot;Give me an open locks check, DC 15&quot;.&nbsp; How does that 2e player even know what to roll?&nbsp; D20?&nbsp; D100?&nbsp; D6?&nbsp; What does he add?&nbsp; After all, skills never worked like that in 2e - NWP's were roll under and thief abilities were percentile, roll under.&nbsp; How does he even know what a DC is?Sit a 3e player down at a 4e table with the same situation.&nbsp; The 3e player not only instantly understands what is required, but can find the appropriate modifiers on his character sheet and roll the result.&nbsp; Or, he could even ask to Take 10 and open the door, presuming his base bonus was high enough.The door is opened and combat starts.&nbsp; The DM says, &quot;Roll for initiative&quot;.&nbsp; The 2e player is again, totally lost - not only does he use the wrong dice, but, he has no idea what modifiers to use - no weapon speeds, dex modifiers work the wrong way.&nbsp; The 3e player rolls his initiative, adds his init mod and keeps going and is not going to try to reroll initiative after the first round.&nbsp; Note the 1e player here is completely out to sea because he's rolling for a side and rolling a d6.The rogue wins initiative and attacks the creature.&nbsp; 2e player rolls his d20 and adds his mod (it's listed beside the weapon).&nbsp; Note, he doesn't add in sneak attack damage because those rules are completely different.&nbsp; 3e player is probably a bit taken aback by having a handful of attack cards, but, since every card is written in exactly the same format as a 3e attack, it's pretty self explanatory.&nbsp; Now, he'd have to learn that there is no flat-footed rules, so, that would be different, but, sneak attack largely works the same as it did in 3e.&nbsp; He needs combat advantage, which is a concept pulled straight from 3e.IOW, play for the 3e character is almost the same between 3e and 4e.&nbsp; Mechanically, there's very few changes.&nbsp; Are they different?&nbsp; Sure.&nbsp; But, more different than the differences between 2e and 3e?&nbsp; Really?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5961044, member: 22779"] Ok, how about this one. 2e player sits down to a 3e table, completely cold (as in no pre-knowledge of 3e) and is given a rogue character. He enters a dungeon and finds a locked door. The DM says, "Give me an open locks check, DC 15". How does that 2e player even know what to roll? D20? D100? D6? What does he add? After all, skills never worked like that in 2e - NWP's were roll under and thief abilities were percentile, roll under. How does he even know what a DC is? Sit a 3e player down at a 4e table with the same situation. The 3e player not only instantly understands what is required, but can find the appropriate modifiers on his character sheet and roll the result. Or, he could even ask to Take 10 and open the door, presuming his base bonus was high enough. The door is opened and combat starts. The DM says, "Roll for initiative". The 2e player is again, totally lost - not only does he use the wrong dice, but, he has no idea what modifiers to use - no weapon speeds, dex modifiers work the wrong way. The 3e player rolls his initiative, adds his init mod and keeps going and is not going to try to reroll initiative after the first round. Note the 1e player here is completely out to sea because he's rolling for a side and rolling a d6. The rogue wins initiative and attacks the creature. 2e player rolls his d20 and adds his mod (it's listed beside the weapon). Note, he doesn't add in sneak attack damage because those rules are completely different. 3e player is probably a bit taken aback by having a handful of attack cards, but, since every card is written in exactly the same format as a 3e attack, it's pretty self explanatory. Now, he'd have to learn that there is no flat-footed rules, so, that would be different, but, sneak attack largely works the same as it did in 3e. He needs combat advantage, which is a concept pulled straight from 3e. IOW, play for the 3e character is almost the same between 3e and 4e. Mechanically, there's very few changes. Are they different? Sure. But, more different than the differences between 2e and 3e? Really? [/QUOTE]

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