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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5964540" data-attributes="member: 22779">Later thought.&nbsp; Rolling this back around to the OP for a second, I do think that this sidebar on social mechanics highlights exactly how you can attract the 4e crowd to 5e.I don't think it's too controversial to say that 4e players don't have a big problem with rules complexity.&nbsp; 4e is not a rules light system at all.&nbsp; And, I think that most 4e players seem not to have a huge issue with allowing the mechanics to arbitrate events to a greater degree than we saw in earlier editions.&nbsp; 4e is pretty clear in most of its mechanics and there isn't as much wiggle room for DM adjudication as there was in, say, 1e.&nbsp; Again, I don't think this is controversial.So, why not play to those predilictions?&nbsp; Not in the core obviously because that's just going to piss off too many people.&nbsp; But, I think the modules is where the 4e players are going to have an absolute field day.&nbsp; 4e is already largely built this way.&nbsp; Very simple core - all classes work the same, for example.&nbsp; Once you've played one class, you can pretty quickly learn any other class because the difference between classes isn't at the beginning, it's at the output end.&nbsp; I can see 5e appealing in the same way.&nbsp; Imagine 4e with only 3 classes.&nbsp; That would be a very simple game, extremely easy to learn and probably fairly boring.&nbsp; That's what 5e core is going to look like to a 4e player.&nbsp; But, add in the modules and suddenly you can broaden in all sorts of directions, and get additional mechanics that aren't just ad hoc add ons like they typically were in earlier editions.&nbsp; The baseline will work and any variation from that baseline can be highlighted at the outset.At the end of the day, my advice to 4e players would be to hold off a second.&nbsp; Right now, they're playtesting the baseline stuff that we take for granted because we've spent the past three or four years playing a system where the baseline stuff wasn't broken.&nbsp; Once they've hammered out that baseline, and convinced all the 3e and earlier players that this baseline was their idea in the first place (wink wink, nudge, nudge) then we'll see all the goodies that 4e players expect from a game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5964540, member: 22779"] Later thought. Rolling this back around to the OP for a second, I do think that this sidebar on social mechanics highlights exactly how you can attract the 4e crowd to 5e. I don't think it's too controversial to say that 4e players don't have a big problem with rules complexity. 4e is not a rules light system at all. And, I think that most 4e players seem not to have a huge issue with allowing the mechanics to arbitrate events to a greater degree than we saw in earlier editions. 4e is pretty clear in most of its mechanics and there isn't as much wiggle room for DM adjudication as there was in, say, 1e. Again, I don't think this is controversial. So, why not play to those predilictions? Not in the core obviously because that's just going to piss off too many people. But, I think the modules is where the 4e players are going to have an absolute field day. 4e is already largely built this way. Very simple core - all classes work the same, for example. Once you've played one class, you can pretty quickly learn any other class because the difference between classes isn't at the beginning, it's at the output end. I can see 5e appealing in the same way. Imagine 4e with only 3 classes. That would be a very simple game, extremely easy to learn and probably fairly boring. That's what 5e core is going to look like to a 4e player. But, add in the modules and suddenly you can broaden in all sorts of directions, and get additional mechanics that aren't just ad hoc add ons like they typically were in earlier editions. The baseline will work and any variation from that baseline can be highlighted at the outset. At the end of the day, my advice to 4e players would be to hold off a second. Right now, they're playtesting the baseline stuff that we take for granted because we've spent the past three or four years playing a system where the baseline stuff wasn't broken. Once they've hammered out that baseline, and convinced all the 3e and earlier players that this baseline was their idea in the first place (wink wink, nudge, nudge) then we'll see all the goodies that 4e players expect from a game. [/QUOTE]

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