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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 5965344" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>I think what gets lost in discussions of player agency vs. fiat is that in RPGs the rules as played are whats important. Role-playing games are incredibly fluid and your typical gaming group abides by nearly as many unwritten rules as written ones. Once the principles behind fiat decisions become consistent they are pretty much unwritten rules. If I know the mind of my DM perfectly than his fiat is just like a formalized rule to me.</p><p></p><p>Although its presence in D&D is more muted than elsewhere player fiat also comes into the picture. How much influence do players have to define things not explicitly covered by the rules? Can I define my character's background? How about age? Social class? Contacts? Do I have narration rights when hit for 8 damage? What about when I fail a diplomacy check? What about when someone my character is engaging in conversation with succeeds on a Bluff check? </p><p></p><p>The issue of player agency vs. GM agency vs. formalized rules is an interesting and murky one. GM and player agency are directly opposed in the sense that the more you have of one the less you generally have of the other with game rules and social contracts acting to formalize who has agency in certain circumstances. Of course the degree of agency players, GMs, and the rules receive at a given table is highly dependent on the scope and objective of play and will be defined by the play group as much as by the rules. Rules are most important important when it comes to new play groups or when the same group plays dramatically different games. They provide a starting point wherein groups will start to define where they sit. Rules matter, but the rules that matter are the ones actually being used at the table of which fiat is a component.</p><p></p><p>I recently had an interesting experience in a GURPS game I was playing in. My character was possessed by a demon (everyone at the table knew), but rather than the GM taking control of my character I retained agency to my character's actions with the caveat that I had to play out that the demon wanted to kill my character's companions. My response was to start out using ineffectual attacks at first and ramping up to lethal force as time went on to represent that the demon was taking more control. I also choose not to target one of the PCs my character had a strong friendship with. By leaving me in control as a player I was able to make important about my character. Still, I lacked the agency to ignore the effects of the possession. </p><p></p><p>For me the above example demonstrates my ideal level of player agency. I needed to make hard choices when faced with constraints. Still I maintained some control over the events of the fiction while not being able to neatly resolve the conflict. Other peoples tolerances for varying degrees of player agency will of course differ dramatically.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 5965344, member: 16586"] I think what gets lost in discussions of player agency vs. fiat is that in RPGs the rules as played are whats important. Role-playing games are incredibly fluid and your typical gaming group abides by nearly as many unwritten rules as written ones. Once the principles behind fiat decisions become consistent they are pretty much unwritten rules. If I know the mind of my DM perfectly than his fiat is just like a formalized rule to me. Although its presence in D&D is more muted than elsewhere player fiat also comes into the picture. How much influence do players have to define things not explicitly covered by the rules? Can I define my character's background? How about age? Social class? Contacts? Do I have narration rights when hit for 8 damage? What about when I fail a diplomacy check? What about when someone my character is engaging in conversation with succeeds on a Bluff check? The issue of player agency vs. GM agency vs. formalized rules is an interesting and murky one. GM and player agency are directly opposed in the sense that the more you have of one the less you generally have of the other with game rules and social contracts acting to formalize who has agency in certain circumstances. Of course the degree of agency players, GMs, and the rules receive at a given table is highly dependent on the scope and objective of play and will be defined by the play group as much as by the rules. Rules are most important important when it comes to new play groups or when the same group plays dramatically different games. They provide a starting point wherein groups will start to define where they sit. Rules matter, but the rules that matter are the ones actually being used at the table of which fiat is a component. I recently had an interesting experience in a GURPS game I was playing in. My character was possessed by a demon (everyone at the table knew), but rather than the GM taking control of my character I retained agency to my character's actions with the caveat that I had to play out that the demon wanted to kill my character's companions. My response was to start out using ineffectual attacks at first and ramping up to lethal force as time went on to represent that the demon was taking more control. I also choose not to target one of the PCs my character had a strong friendship with. By leaving me in control as a player I was able to make important about my character. Still, I lacked the agency to ignore the effects of the possession. For me the above example demonstrates my ideal level of player agency. I needed to make hard choices when faced with constraints. Still I maintained some control over the events of the fiction while not being able to neatly resolve the conflict. Other peoples tolerances for varying degrees of player agency will of course differ dramatically. [/QUOTE]
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