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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorhook" data-source="post: 4906461" data-attributes="member: 58401">Convincing a 4E group to try Pathfinder? Downgrading? (I kid, I kid!) Speaking as a 4E fan, I'm actually somewhat interested in having a look at Pathfinder, which I understand has a pretty cool setting. That said, I'm not sold on the mechanics of Pathfinder. To paraphrase something I read a lot of last year, "I just don't like the direction in which Paizo is taking D&D"; if I did like their direction, Pathfinder would look a lot more like 4E. In this vein, I'm not convinced that you are (or were) ever any more free of "roles" than you are in 4E, because previous editions of D&D had roles too, except that they were more latent -- implicit rather than explicit.To answer your question ("Am I wasting my time?") more directly, I'm going to have to say that I think you might be. Personally, I have a lot of experience with new and casual players -- in fact, all of my games have been with people I've recruited to D&D myself -- and I'm pretty sure that switching systems could jeopardize a lot of your group's momentum and interest, especially if it's to a system that's more complicated and less "fun" to play than what they're used to. If you're going to pull it off, it will be essential that A) the group harbours some frustration with 4E, and that B) you can sell Pathfinder to them as a solution to those frustrations. (If you try to switch them off of a system they love to a system they don't, you risk stirring up a lot of resentment towards both you and the system you're trying to introduce.)Honestly, you haven't really made it clear why you need to switch at all. You haven't really explained whether or not the other players in your group enjoy 4E, which will prove to be a major factor in this. Also, as I pointed out above, your complaint about 4E may not be solved by playing a different system, because roles are an essential part of D&D (even when they aren't spelled out as such). As for newbies and casual gamers, again, you really risk alienating them if you switch them off of a system that they've just started to enjoy and get the hang of. Long story short, this has very little to do with the system and a lot to do with your group; be very careful before forcing a change on them.Also, FWIW, if you do decide to go with Pathfinder, you should still be able to run the Eberron setting with that system, IIUC.EDIT: I want to be clear that I don't intend to disparage Pathfinder (much) with this post. It genuinely looks like a quality product! Rather, my point is that switching systems may not solve the OP's problem, as well as that it might create a lot of new problems too, and that the OP should think it over very carefully before switching.</blockquote>

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