cool stuff!!! combining metamagic feats

[darkbard]

no, i'm not talking about a wizard preparing a silent, maximized magic missile. what i'm talking about is changing the way metamagic feats work.

as it stands now, players playing wizards in my games rarely take arcane metamagic feats since their utility is rather limited. sure, it occasionally helps to have a silent spell or a maximized spell prepared, but what about those times when you have the silent spell feat but really need a stilled spell or a quickened spell.

would it unbalance the game to have wizards gain access to a group of metamagic feats when they chose to spend one of their few feats on a metamagic feat. after all, the wizard would still have to prepare a spell with the appropriate feat and still must use a higher spell slot for the metamagicked spell.

if you were to implement such a change, how would you do it? would you group metamagic feats into "similar effects" or "same power level" (all spells of this group use a slot of two levels higher, for instance) or simply allow a wizard access to any metamagic feats if she expends one feat? what about feats from other sources (tome and blood, FRCS, etc.)?

and how would you handle the sorcerer, which would seem to require a different set of rules entirely?

 

[darkbard]

well, since no one is biting at the "combining metamagic feats" line, i've added "cool stuff" in a blatant corporate-style advertising ploy.

 

[Piratecat]

Actually, I'll slide this over to House Rules, where it technically belongs. You'll get most responses about 9 or 10 hours from now, as the Americans wake up.

 

[darkbard]

suitably chastised for my whining.

 

[Aluvial]

I'll bite...

How about grouping them in 1-2-3 patterns... Three per and then give them a one spell level higher, a two spell level higher, and a three spell level higher...

then they may not be able to initially use the higher level one but they would have it because of the grouping....

I don't have the list or remember all of the spell level requirements... but this might help start you off...

I wouldn't let them pick which specific metas they get, they just get to pick the premade groupings...


Aluvial

 

[Plane Sailing]

Although I wouldn't go this route personally, I'm happy to try and brainstorm a bit with you.

Three classifications jump to mind immediatly:

a) reduces casting restrictions (still, silent, quicken spell)

b) improves a variable effect (empower, maximise)

c) modifies another feature (extend, enlarge, heighten)

 

[darkbard]

the more i think on this subject, the more i'm leaning toward not making any changes to the metamagic system. but i can't help thinking that spellcasters pay twice for each metamagic use: burning a feat and then using a higher spell slot (as sean k. reynolds points out on his website, this is not quite like another character's use of power attack or expertise which have far greater application).

i guess i'm just looking for a hearty debate on the merits/faults of the current system and potential ways of changing it. plane sailing's idea is a good start (but i'd also like to know why you wouldn't make changes to the system).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Off hand there are a couple of reasons why I wouldn't make a change to the current system.

1. It allows for greater differentiation between wizards. As it stands, you will have some 11th level wizards with still spell, silent spell, empower spell; others might have maximise spell, extend spell and quicken spell.

If all wizards had pretty much access to all the metamagic feats (which would happen pretty quickly if they got more than one at once) by mid-levels most wizards would look pretty much the same in terms of capabilities. I prefer giving wizards (and to a greater extend sorcerers) hard choices in terms of which feats they want to get.

2. The sorcerer ability to metamagic stuff on the fly is *extremely* useful by the time they reach high level. The wizards comparitive lack of flexibility is balanced out by the greater number of metamagic feats they get (up to 4 extra, depending upon level). If metamagic feats were clumped together more, it would be easier for the sorcerer to get access to all of them, and reduce or eliminate the wizards balancing factor.

Basically I'm pretty happy with the mechanism as it stands at the moment.

One interesting alternative that you could consider is allowing metamagic to be applied to spells without increasing the spell level, but introducing a backfire chance of 10% per unapplied level (and metamagics have to be fully applied or not at all).

Thus a 1st level wizard could attempt to prepare a quickened, maximised magic missile - but it would have a 70% backfire chance.

(actually, the more I think about this the more I like the idea... "classical" fantasy fiction often relies upon wizards over-reaching their power and thus inviting disaster - an issue that doesn't come up in D&D unless you mess around with higher level scrolls. This could be used to give a quick and dirty method of playing with fire, and could make wizards.... entertaining)

Cheers

 

[Allanon]

Wow, Plane Sailing, you're idea just rocks. This certainly provides the mage with the tools to make that final desperate attempt to save his party. Like Raistlin in Dragonlance who atlhough severly weakened (oke this isn't a precise comparison, so what) still tries to cast that final important spell.